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It is currently Wed Jun 05, 2024 1:47 pm
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Russell
Team:
Main: Llessur
Level: 2808 Class:
Engineer
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:26 pm Location: Feilding, New Zealand
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
smccarty wrote: LOL!!!! Someone needs to lay off the pipe, never the less I have had a long history of comments on this subject long before we decided to milk your team for GG. Still currently a few TFC stealth SD has more than held their own against the DM hoard (which includes Seers btw) If stealth were removed from SDs we would simply get swamped.
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Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:20 pm |
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villiroth
Team:
Main: norrath
Level: 1806 Class:
Seer
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:28 pm Location: in my secret lair planing the downfall of mankind
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
Russell wrote: I think the main reason DM members are complaining about stealth SDs is they are finding that their SDs are having a hard time from a couple of TFC stealth SDs.Im not on DM, and we arent at war with anyone so please tell me why I have a problem with stealth Sd.
I am not in favour of changing visability at the moment because: So if you werent at war you would have no problem changing it?
Stealth is an attribute of Recon class Its Recon FOCUS, and stealth is an attribute of seer and sniper NOT SPEED DEMON. Stealth + speed allows a small number of characters to fight a much larger group with some chance of sucess. It comes down to skill. Since when is it skill to equip a cloak and disappear? Skill would be walking away from such a conflict with equal or greater amounts of GG then you had when you entered. Without stealth you just get swamped by superior numbers.Thats the idea of superior numbers. A change needs to be made to the class itself, the vis and cloak changes went quite well but its still not enough. As Trevor said, 1 or 2 -vis augs should be MANDATORY for SD's to go stealth in there combat ships.
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Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:19 pm |
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mayank
Team:
Main: -defender-
Level: 2265 Class:
Shield Monkey
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 7:32 am
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
Personally I'd prefer stealth SD staying in the game, In my opinion it just adds some variety to the gameplay. The way I look at it right now is, if everyone cloaks, a person can use a athena+, lose some DPS compared to what he'd have had if he had used a CaP or CaL rather, and be able to see other stealth SDs around him from a reasonable distance. Otherwise a person can just use his normal setup and not have to make that sacrifice. To be honest, I dont know why so much fuss is being made about stealth SD, there are other equally broken things in game. Even if you can see a stealth SD from 1k away thats enough to chase him down, since he would most likely not go too fast considering that he uses a athena+. If he doesn't, you both can't see each other and its equal. Against other classes, I dont think stealth SD or not makes too much off a difference, they can always strike you in their aura no matter what..
But having said that, I have no problems at all if it is taken out. If I were an endgame PvP SD I'd surely prefer unstealthed SD PvP since it requires a bit less effort and concentration, and there the group with larger numbers would always win. Thing is, that since the game seems to be a bit "small-team-friendly", I think the stealth SD and stuff is needed, because it does actually give some chance to the weaker team with lesser numbers to try and do something. Otherwise really, they'd just be toast.
Anyway I feel the vision on the radars does need a significant beef of upto 5 or 6 folds like denoan correctly pointed out. Detection too could do with a beef, maybe 50%. That should make it a bit hard to stealth so conviniently as a SD.
Also what could be done is to nerf all cloak stats in half keeping their sizes the same. And give Sniper and Seer some cloaking bonuses.
You see..atm the problem is not with SD, it is with the radar/vis/cloaking system. Cloaks are way too powerful. And radars seem a bit too weak.
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:54 am |
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Minaskosai
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:03 am Location: Right Behind You!!!!
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
What is the admins stance on the issue currently?
Is the system going to stay essentially the same, or are more changes inbound? If the latter, has the nature of the changes been decided? when might we see them?
_________________ "So instead of 11 million dollars on the loose, we'll have 22?!" "Plus we are needing gas money."
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:03 am |
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longname
Team:
Main: Ingendum
Level: 1364 Class:
Shield Monkey
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:29 am
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
Well... I'm using alby, CaL, spacy sup, Z+ on a DS+ and I just wanted to see what a cloak would do.. Switched my normal radar with a passive radar, put a cloak on, the result: 6 vis and I can hardly be seen. I still think stealth needs some work..
_________________ "You can sit and bitch, and moan, and cry and complain. You can sit and tell others how poorly you think things are run, but in the end, you are less useful than the problem itself."
The Voomy One wrote: Vista is evil. Upgrade to XP
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:28 am |
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thebattler35
Team:
Main: thebattler36
Level: 1791 Class:
Shield Monkey
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:24 am Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
I think now we have a situation which is similar to the original.
It used to be that you were either visible or entirely invisible
Now you are either visible or slightly less visible.
The Difference in visibility/detection between a seer with 4x Seer Masts and a Speed Demon with just a cloak is far too small. I think there needs to be some sort of multiplier for visibility as it gets lower, As i believe that the lower your vis gets the less it is reduced by -vis augs.
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:07 pm |
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shawn_mccall
Team:
Main: shawn - mccall
Level: 2411 Class:
Fleet Commander
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:53 am
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
thebattler35 wrote: I think now we have a situation which is similar to the original.
It used to be that you were either visible or entirely invisible
Now you are either visible or slightly less visible.
The Difference in visibility/detection between a seer with 4x Seer Masts and a Speed Demon with just a cloak is far too small. I think there needs to be some sort of multiplier for visibility as it gets lower, As i believe that the lower your vis gets the less it is reduced by -vis augs. im still invisible with my gunner a panther seer could only see me when he got within 375 distance.
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:11 pm |
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thebattler35
Team:
Main: thebattler36
Level: 1791 Class:
Shield Monkey
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:24 am Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
shawn_mccall wrote: thebattler35 wrote: I think now we have a situation which is similar to the original.
It used to be that you were either visible or entirely invisible
Now you are either visible or slightly less visible.
The Difference in visibility/detection between a seer with 4x Seer Masts and a Speed Demon with just a cloak is far too small. I think there needs to be some sort of multiplier for visibility as it gets lower, As i believe that the lower your vis gets the less it is reduced by -vis augs. im still invisible with my gunner a panther seer could only see me when he got within 375 distance. Juju must have really low reflectivity. Because SDs with ath+s can see my seer with a lot of neg vis from my augs from hundreds away.
_________________
Octo wrote: QFT Octo either owned the fish initially, or scooped it when he podded any/all of the above.
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:04 pm |
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Demiser of D
Team:
Main: Demiser of D
Level: 20 Class:
None
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:46 pm Location: Listening to Fire On High, best song ever.
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
jujus reflectivity is around 70%.
_________________
JeffL wrote: That's it. I quit!
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:35 pm |
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Pontius123
Team:
Main: The Rain in Spain
Level: 1948 Class:
Seer
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:45 pm
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
Sniper has the most effective cloaks if both seer and sniper use the same cloaks. Cloaks reduce reflectivity.
_________________ The Aeon shall cleanse the galaxy.
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:33 pm |
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Demiser of D
Team:
Main: Demiser of D
Level: 20 Class:
None
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:46 pm Location: Listening to Fire On High, best song ever.
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
That +cloaking boost? It doesn't exist. Its just -visibility. I'll be changing the wiki page on that shortly.
_________________
JeffL wrote: That's it. I quit!
Battlecruiser23 wrote: Fuck you, Cygnus.
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:34 pm |
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Pontius123
Team:
Main: The Rain in Spain
Level: 1948 Class:
Seer
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:45 pm
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
Demiser of D wrote: That +cloaking boost? It doesn't exist. Its just -visibility. I'll be changing the wiki page on that shortly. EWWWW
_________________ The Aeon shall cleanse the galaxy.
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:50 pm |
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mayank
Team:
Main: -defender-
Level: 2265 Class:
Shield Monkey
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 7:32 am
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
If you actually have lots of -ve vis augs..I dont see how a SD with athena+ can see you from hundreds away, last time I tried with a athena+ and all good radars, I couldn't spot an average seer from more than 70 or so.
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Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:05 am |
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Demiser of D
Team:
Main: Demiser of D
Level: 20 Class:
None
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:46 pm Location: Listening to Fire On High, best song ever.
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Re: Changes to Cloaks/visibility
Cant aug a sniper for stealth very well Sniper masteries only go so far. Qa augs dont work. What else is there? I've got about 1 vis while cloaked, but i could still be detected from 1000 or more distance by a LF with multiple athena augs. But i think it's fine; I'll just kill them >.>
_________________
JeffL wrote: That's it. I quit!
Battlecruiser23 wrote: Fuck you, Cygnus.
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Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:30 pm |
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