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Team: Dark Traders
Main: Max235
Level: 1821
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am
Post Tier or Tech. Suggestion and Discussion.
This is a very big suggestion, not because of the words, but because of the amount of content it would entitle. I'm talking about a simplified way to categorize hundreds if not a few thousand items, with a couple hundred missions to boot.

A moderator will/should be deleting for spam if anyone tries any funny business.

Enkelin wrote:
Sooooo, players are supposed to have SM 20 to make T21 modules, and yet only EE 18? By the way, the stats you propose are better than any comparable Olympus energy of any tier.


Salt wrote:
The stats you just suggested are better than a primal rhino end...


Max wrote:
For Salt wrote:
Meh, the stats was an example. The point is that a lower tech guy can work both ways for very powerful gear.
High Tech, or High Tier. We already have a tier system for ruins. Why not expand that further? Ex. Mz Rumble is a higher tier Mz Thunder, but Thunder, Strike, and Rumble are all T18.

A player will work more or less the same effort to get to a piece of gear as good as a T3 Oly Gear.

For Enkelin wrote:
If you spent about 500b finishing off that new set of T3 Oly Gear and your new Zeus Throne+, then someone following a more tiered path would also spend around 500b to get a high end FC ship for T18.

The other person would probably not build modules, but rather obtain gear through ruins, dging, and building. As well as the usual things like Dement, DModules(and below), Crystals, etc.


But the advantage is that a high tier guy will get to his piece potentially a lot faster due to skipping the need to get higher tech skills. But on the other hand, the "total" potential of the highest tiers of T21 are actually better, and higher tech non built/dropped items can be modded.

You'll be a bit better off stat wise, but if he started at the same time you did, he'll be done a bit faster(like a month or so).

The tier system would support upgrades and upgrade items(ships) more due to the nature of the gear, having to upgrade them a lot. Tech system is less so, but would(if jeff get off his lazy butt and code) do so as well.

The highest tier of both systems are neurobound. Ships of the tier system being one time and neurobound, if possible on the NB.

Most ruins are placed/should be placed within the tier system, while most dropped/built items should be if not already are in the tech system.


"Why?", is the biggest question for this.

1. The new skill point allocation for tech skills encourage this already. The skills more or less cost more than before, making it to ones advantage to use better gear before increasing your tech. The pinnacle would be to stop increasing the tech at one point, in favor of straight up increasing the tier.

2. This gives a vast uncharted region for content. We're talking about enough content to satisfy the playerbase for up to a decade. But without the massive testing phases and code times that are required for similarly sized expansions.

3. Compared to most other things, like AEM's new zone, this is relatively easy to add. Most of the work gets done by the balance sheet. Only need to manually add missions and balance the construction costs so a low tier item isn't going to cost 45 dem, 1800 ada, and 2400 DM in the same upgrade.

4. This is the biggest part. It gives unparalleled versatility in setups and playstyles. This gets people hooked. The ability to play to where you want to play instead of how the game tells you to play. This would allow JeffL to finally use without shame or doubt the phrase "Sandbox Game" for an MMO.

5. Wouldn't you like seeing a T17-T19 sniper in a fight smiting enemy ships left and right as good as Beelzebub's sniper? Assuming someone goes that far of course.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:49 pm
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Team: Dark Traders
Main: enkelin
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Post Re: Tier or Tech. Suggestion and Discussion.
It's not a bad idea in principle. It's also not a bad idea to mediate it through ruin items, since Ancient lore is due for some expanding anyway. It would be good to start some cross-over lore options though, such as 20 in Mzu and 10 in two of the others. You should get rid of anything that requires T21 modules for stuff that's not T20 at least, because that will only serve as a disincentive to climb the tier ladder. Go heavy on the dem and lac modules (those bps should be easier to obtain) and maybe some mission-related commodities.

By the way, there are only 8 tier 3 Olympus items in game. They are:

Ares Black Stallions
Poseidon the Earthshaker Shield
Ball Lightning
Hephaestus Maul (x5)

Most of the item lines start at tier 0.75 and end at tier 2.

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Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:00 pm
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Team: Eminence Front
Main: Eurus
Level: 2330
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Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:27 pm
Post Re: Tier or Tech. Suggestion and Discussion.
I'm not sure if Jeff if against these sorts of things or not but:

This allows for some epic power-leveling on people's alts.

This would also allow FTP to get stupidly strong (and potentially grief other, shorter term FTP). FTP are also limited in terms of content for a reason, we shouldn't start giving them better content.

In terms of being comparable with t20 the tech of an item should always hold some weight on the balance sheets.

Cost is also an issue- will you start adding 3b+ t18 drones for engineers as well? Otherwise this isn't fair.

T20 ships will always be better anyway so there's no point in simply avoiding t20. If you make ships below t19 particularly powerful you beef slave users (thus they should be DESIGNED for high end use).


In short it's a nice idea but has too many flaws. I wouldn't mind some kind of system where good gear can last a fair few techs before cheap gear of that level out-paces it. The possibility of UPGRADING the gear a few tech levels via missions is also enticing (the total 'cost' in terms of raw materials is greater, yet they don't have to shell out so much for each progression).

What we don't want is people hitting t20/the level required for t20 after about 3 sets of gear and so buying/selling very little. (one of the reasons behind the change).

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Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:15 pm
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Team: Dark Traders
Main: Max235
Level: 1821
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am
Post Re: Tier or Tech. Suggestion and Discussion.
Preferably, the way to "upgrade" the items would be done through missions, so they can be P2p locked as AEM(or was it SI?) locked a number of Piracy missions to P2p.


Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:56 pm
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Team: Eminence Front
Main: Eurus
Level: 2330
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Post Re: Tier or Tech. Suggestion and Discussion.
It would have to be either neurobound or tied to a specific skill.

Neurobound makes things a little too permanent- why bother making this instead of higher tech gear?

A specific skill... maybe.

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Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:55 pm
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Team: Dark Traders
Main: Max235
Level: 1821
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:16 am
Post Re: Tier or Tech. Suggestion and Discussion.
We're talking about the utmost highest tier. The same place a Vol Oly Jupiter Shield would be. That thing is OP, plain a simple. So will these, plain and simple. But, if you spent the effort to get one, you deserve to have said OP item.

Normal AI base gear is like 0.75t
Most DG loot is like 1.00t

Ruins(Thunder, FE7, VP6, etc) are like Tier 2. For the same worth, FT gear is here too.

Then, Tier 2 and Tier 3.

Most people should be stopping at T3. But for those who want the absolute best, I'm hoping for Tier 4 and Tier 5. These get expensive, but yes, totally worth the effort.

P2p missions. Neurobound only at Tier 5. F2p would be able to reach Tier 2, at best. But remember Earthforce Space is supposed to be PvP-Free.


Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:46 am
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