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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental
How does it effect pvb, or even bvb for that matter? Lol

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:30 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental
I'm sorry, but if you just think about the typical base combat, you'll see that 50% is really no different from 0%...

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:38 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental
Cygnus wrote:
I'm sorry, but if you just think about the typical base combat, you'll see that 50% is really no different from 0%...



... Fuck.. 100% is really no different from 0%!

Seer shoots a base, base insta owns seer for that split second he was visable.. Lol

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:42 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental
paxiprime wrote:
Cygnus wrote:
I'm sorry, but if you just think about the typical base combat, you'll see that 50% is really no different from 0%...



... Fuck.. 100% is really no different from 0%!

Seer shoots a base, base insta owns seer for that split second he was visable.. Lol


If the base has any form of bullet weapons its easy to dodge as seer though :) the only problem is pure beam bases

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:44 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental
Drone vision suggestion: Then we'll have engineers bitching their drones won't be able to see anything. There is no flaw. Seers just can't fight/kill engineers/shield monkeys that are awake. Those two should be the classes they have no chance against. The rest should be lessering degrees of difficulty from near-always-win to a medium challenge.

Spotty Beam: No. SS is a 'sandbox' came. While game mechanics nudge at classes using some ship/damage/aug, etc... Types over others doesn't mean that such a MONSTEROUS advantage should be given. What of HF, Freighter and Capital ship seers? Sure, they might not be super low vis, but they sure as shit won't be if they're still subject to th same effects.

It sould be a PvAi weapon only. That is what is what it was introduced for and therefore what it should be used for.

Collision Code: No class should be immune to such a crucial game mechanic. Changes should not be added to seer class.
-Perhaps a skill similar to Transference Mastery; Dimensional Flux Harnessing? Or something fancy like that :P... Maxed at 30, gives 30% Chance of being passed 'through' by a projectile (Excluding physical weapons damage type) when unseen by shooter.
-Ethereal weapons should not hit you if you're not targeted.
-Beams, even if non-ethereal should not hit you if you're unseen (targeted or untargetted) by the shooter.

Timmeh

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:20 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental
============================================================================

Comment/Answer Post *Edit* *Adding to the topic, will update frequently*

Index:
Q= Question/Opinion Stated
A= My answer to such said statement.
============================================================================

Q1:
paxiprime wrote:
Imo the only thing that needs to be changed about seer is their ability to go back to low vis faster.


A1:Very Very OP. It couldn't possible be balanced.

============================================================================
Q2:
biggee531 wrote:
Regardless, seers shouldn't be invincible just by being invisible. I think a 50% chance to dodge is a lot more appropriate. Having a near invincible stealth class poses a lot of issues for PvB/BvB balance.


A2:
paxiprime wrote:

Seer shoots a base, base insta owns seer for that split second he was visible.. Lol


============================================================================

Q3:
VatFF wrote:
If the base has any form of bullet weapons its easy to dodge as seer though :) the only problem is pure beam bases


A3: With an average speed of 130-165, dodging/reaction time is impossible, even with pulse weapons. Only takes an average of 2-4 shots to kill a seer. 2 shots being an eclipse, 4 being a bsheath. Also might I add that a good % of kits are beam only.

============================================================================

Q4:
Mail wrote:

Drone vision suggestion: Then we'll have engineers bitching their drones won't be able to see anything. There is no flaw. Seers just can't fight/kill engineers/shield monkeys that are awake. Those two should be the classes they have no chance against. The rest should be lessering degrees of difficulty from near-always-win to a medium challenge.

Spotty Beam: No. SS is a 'sandbox' came. While game mechanics nudge at classes using some ship/damage/aug, etc... Types over others doesn't mean that such a MONSTROUS advantage should be given. What of HF, Freighter and Capital ship seers? Sure, they might not be super low vis, but they sure as shit won't be if they're still subject to the same effects.

It should be a PvAi weapon only. That is what is what it was introduced for and therefore what it should be used for.

Collision Code: No class should be immune to such a crucial game mechanic. Changes should not be added to seer class.
-Perhaps a skill similar to Transference Mastery; Dimensional Flux Harnessing? Or something fancy like that :P... Maxed at 30, gives 30% Chance of being passed 'through' by a projectile (Excluding physical weapons damage type) when unseen by shooter.
-Ethereal weapons should not hit you if you're not targeted.
-Beams, even if non-ethereal should not hit you if you're unseen (targeted or untargetted) by the shooter.

Timmeh


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A4 Part 1:
Mail wrote:
Drone vision suggestion: Then we'll have engineers bitching their drones won't be able to see anything.


No class should be able to see a class that isn't intending to be visible. [Shooting for example, or tractoring]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A4 Part 2:
Mail wrote:
Seers just can't fight/kill engineers/shield monkeys that are awake. Those two should be the classes they have no chance against.


Your absolutely right. Seers will never beat a prepared an Engineer under any reasonable situation. The suggestion is only intended for the freedom of movement/recon such as pinging or using an engine to the full extent needed. Also, for reasons stated above.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A4 Part 3:
Mail wrote:
Spotty Beam: No. SS is a 'sandbox' came. While game mechanics nudge at classes using some ship/damage/aug, etc... Types over others doesn't mean that such a MONSTEROUS advantage should be given. What of HF, Freighter and Capital ship seers? Sure, they might not be super low vis, but they sure as shit won't be if they're still subject to the same effects.

It sould be a PvAi weapon only. That is what is what it was introduced for and therefore what it should be used for.


As stated in the thesis, the nature of damage from 1 class to another is the complete opposite [In common cases]. DPS and DPH and seer is what comes on top. Furthermore, this weapon prevents that and defeats the purpose of balance. In conclusion, Snipers should always have a disadvantage.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A4 Part 4:
Mail wrote:
Spotty Beam:
It sould be a PvAi weapon only. That is what is what it was introduced for and therefore what it should be used for.


Agreed. But lets face it, it wont happen. But, then again, its all up the admins isn't it? If we have a healthy discussion, whatever they see fit should be in alignment with reason.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A4: Part 5:
Mail wrote:
Collision Code: No class should be immune to such a crucial game mechanic. Changes should not be added to seer class.
-Perhaps a skill similar to Transference Mastery; Dimensional Flux Harnessing? Or something fancy like that :P... Maxed at 30, gives 30% Chance of being passed 'through' by a projectile (Excluding physical weapons damage type) when unseen by shooter.
-Ethereal weapons should not hit you if you're not targeted.
-Beams, even if non-ethereal should not hit you if you're unseen (targeted or untargetted) by the shooter.

Timmeh


A4: This is by far the best reason I wrote this paper. If any code like this is added, it should be in the 80-90% range. Given that there are countless RoF setups out there. Also, SDs have the tendency to use this cc the most.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A5 Part 6:
Mail wrote:
Collision Code:
-Ethereal weapons should not hit you if you're not targeted.
-Beams, even if non-ethereal should not hit you if you're unseen (targeted or untargetted) by the shooter.

Timmeh


Couldn't agree more. In fact, this is most likely going to be the kicker! Since 90% of any weapon shot at a seer for cc use is a beam! You've done it my good sir! I will work on tweaking the topic.

============================================================================

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:00 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental
Quote:
There is 1 simple solution to this problem, and that is to make the effect non light fighter sticky. So, no matter how much you shoot a light fighter with it, the effect wont stick.


This isn't possible... At all.

Quote:
Given that every AI boss is either a heavy fighter or freighter. The only 2 light fighter bosses in game are: Dark Curse and Ares, both incredibly high visibility.


You obviously haven't been to Hermes, he is low vis and the Argeiphontes Hermes is a Light Fighter. In fact, when I made Hermes, I was thinking of Seer most of the time.

I don't think BFD radars have been changed since Klestiko was around, just people saw their potential since then. Likewise, I have a feeling Collision Code has been in since before he 'left' too.

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:11 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental [Q&A Update 2/8/12]
What i said was not a question. Its a statement based on my experience in BvB as seer. I can outrun just about any pulse weapon there is with a big of smart thinking and preparations, the only problem are lasers.

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:22 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental
Blue Dwarf wrote:
Bastamental wrote:
There is 1 simple solution to this problem, and that is to make the effect non light fighter sticky. So, no matter how much you shoot a light fighter with it, the effect wont stick.


This isn't possible... At all.

Bastamental wrote:
Given that every AI boss is either a heavy fighter or freighter. The only 2 light fighter bosses in game are: Dark Curse and Ares, both incredibly high visibility.


You obviously haven't been to Hermes, he is low vis and the Argeiphontes Hermes is a Light Fighter. In fact, when I made Hermes, I was thinking of Seer most of the time.

I don't think BFD radars have been changed since Klestiko was around, just people saw their potential since then. Likewise, I have a feeling Collision Code has been in since before he 'left' too.


P1:What about making the weapon AI only as it was intended to be? Is that codeable?

Just an idea. Turn it into a nanite wep. Make it give 3 nanites. 1 for HF, Capship and Freighter, all the same stats as the wep. Solved?

P2: BFDs didn't change, drone controllers were added before Kles was around. Also drone ops augs. So basically before engis had much power of any sort.

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It's a seer thing.

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:38 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental
Quote:
Given that every AI boss is either a heavy fighter or freighter. The only 2 light fighter bosses in game are: Dark Curse and Ares, both incredibly high visibility.


DC is also quite stealthy

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:31 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental [Q&A Update 2/8/12]
Iirc Primal phanter might be a LF

And dident Kles leave after both BFD and Drone ops augs?


Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:53 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental [Q&A Update 2/8/12]
I think it would be easier to make those bosses heavy fighters, with the same exact stats. Seems more reasonable than throwing an idea away.

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Jiraque wrote:
It's a seer thing.

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Use that yellow thingy on that zerk!


Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:28 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental [Q&A Update 2/8/12]
Bastamental wrote:
I think it would be easier to make those bosses heavy fighters, with the same exact stats. Seems more reasonable than throwing an idea away.


...
....
.....

Easiest solution would be to up the recoil on spotty beam massively, to like 30 seconds. Problem solved? Also, Ares' mini-bosses are both stealthy and LF. And DC is actually pretty low vis inherently.

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Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:56 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental
Blue Dwarf wrote:
I don't think BFD radars have been changed since Klestiko was around, just people saw their potential since then. Likewise, I have a feeling Collision Code has been in since before he 'left' too.


BFD's borked radar, collision code, and drone ops augs were all around the same time I was; however I don't see what me being around has to do with how (un)balanced these these things are.

The only thing I never really had a chance to fight against regarding Engineers were the bubble drones and whatnot.

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Last edited by crackaman on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:54 am, edited 3 times in total.

Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:40 am
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Post Re: Seer Thesis by Bastamental [Q&A Update 2/8/12]
It's because even to date your are still know as that Indestructible, Terrorizing Seer from long ago.

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Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:45 am
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