I want to proffer the following as an official proposal on a change in the way PvP works in Star Sonata.

I'll preface this with saying that over the years, we've learned that simpler is better in terms of PvP, because no matter what system we use, people will exploit it as much as possible in whatever way possible. So simplicity is key.

Second, we have to have PvP because we have limited real estate, and players must be allowed to fight over it. We want to have PvP, because PvP is interesting and can lead to a compelling game. Also, I believe that a game that encourages and involves PvP is more scalable than a purely PvE game.

The problems with our current PvP system are that, in practice, we tend to get a lot of asymmetric PvP. We get one person attacking another person who doesn't want to PvP. That person just wants to be left alone to do his thing. This is what I call "bad PvP" or borderline griefing. It can be OK in certain games where this is expected, but in SS, players tend to spend most of their time doing other things, and getting ganked tends to be a rare and unpleasant experience. The other problem is that because of the way stasis works, once someone has killed you, they can camp your ship forever, or just simply follow you around, preventing you from playing the game at all.

So onto the proposal:

1) Split the game between PvP, non-PvP (PvE), and hybrid layers. Keeping our current universe layers, they would work like this:

Nexus: not-buildable, no PvP allowed
Celestial Garden: buildable, not ownable, PvP allowed (number of gals increased)
Earthforce Layer: not-buildable, no PvP allowed (number of gals and max DF increased)
Wild Space: buildable, ownable, PvP allowed (number of gals increased)
Perilous Space, not-buildable, PvP allowed

The reasoning behind this is that players who just want to do PvE content and "be left alone" can go to Earthforce Layer and be free from PvP. Earthforce layer would go all the way up to DF 300, so there would still be some high-end DG's.

If a PvE oriented player wants to do the highest end-game content in Perilous Space, he will have to risk PvP, but he'll also know that going in, and will have a choice to stay in EF layer if he doesn't have a group or doesn't feel like dealing with PvP at the time.

Players who venture into the buildable layers of Celestial Garden and Wild Space will have to do so knowing they are risking PvP. But that makes sense, since they are going there to build or make colonies, and are probably on a team, so they can get help from their team if they run into problems.

Since players will have the choice to stay in PvE space, we will eliminate all rules about griefing, and there will be pretty much an "anything goes" attitude towards PvP by the admin team (exploiting of bugs excluded, obviously.) The idea is that since there is a split between PvP and PvE space, you enter PvP space at your own risk.

2) When you or your slave gets killed in PvP, your ship or your slave gets instantly and automatically towed to the nearest towing station, potentially for free. All towing stations will be located in non-PvP space, and we will increase the amount of them. This is to eliminate "corpse camping", and anyone who goes back into PvP space after getting killed does so at their own risk. It's on them if they get killed repeatedly. Possibly we would also add an option for your spirit to teleport to the nearest towing station as well, and possibly we could make a team HQ act as a towing station for team members.

I believe that with this framework in place, where PvP is essentially an optional part of the game (though a huge part), we would feel more comfortable going forward with things such as an enhanced glory system, PvP rewards, special battlezones that spawn good stuff periodically for players to fight over, etc. And I also think that this system would mostly eliminate asymmetrical PvP but leave in place a framework for a more consensual style of PvP -- especially in Perilous Space. It just has to be known going in there, that the place is perilous, and other players are more perilous than AI's.

The other possible change to the PvP system we were talking about was something based on PvP flags or temporary protection after you get killed or something based on relative glory ranks, but honestly, I think all of this still allows for way too many exploits and asymmetrical PvP, and the simpler system I outlined above is far superior.

With a (hopefully) huge influx of new players coming in the near future, this is something I really think we need to get sorted out now rather than later.

TL;DR: 1) universe split up by layer into PvP and PvE zones, and 2) when you get killed by PvP, your stasised ship gets teleported to a towing station in PvE space for free.

Edit:

Is the teleporting going to be a choice?

Let there be an option to be teleported instantly? Someone may want to stay and fight once they regen up and not want to travel all the way back again. Especially if there is a big fight on it would be a bit annoying for your ship to be teleported potentially up to 20 jumps away.


Unless there is frequent galaxys with towing stations in etc

Exploit #1. i will wait in protected space, because there is only one warp into each layer, i can choose my weak tergets leaving the protected layers.


Exploit #2. if i dont feel like flying to my HQ i can suicide to get to it?



Notes. Will being killed by AI effect the instant towing?

will we have a toggleable option to be instant towed (i would very much like this)

and if you die in PvP will you still drop GG if you dont Crazy Glue? (and items if no GG) if you are auto towed? (i'd prefer this to keep it fair)


what happenes if i have drones out and die and get auto towed? (this is why i'd like the toggle option)

I have mixed feelings on the optional tow idea.

On the one hand, people would clearly prefer it because it gives them a choice, but on the other hand, the forced tow will protect people from themselves (e.g. stubbornly getting in their ship over and over again to be killed repeatedly, or thinking their attacker has gone, when he's just sitting there cloaked), and it could also make PvP encounters more dynamic, as you temporarily remove people from the battlefield, you can in theory "win", or else you have people flying back from the towing station to reinforce.

If teleporting is not optional, there absolutely must be options to teleport further into Perilous space. It would be an enormous waste of time to be killed otherwise, even worse than now. I really don't see the problem with making every AI base a towing station.

We have added the stairs back for next uni.


It will cost you a GG, and I don't really have a problem with that. We're talking about building HQ teleporters anyway.


No, instant towing is only if you or your combat slave is killed by a player.


Still under debate. Under the official proposal, no, but a lot of people are asking for this.


Yes.


Your ship gets towed, but not your escape pod/spirit. In C2, you will be able to direct the fire of your drones and slaves using the RTS interface, or you can go back to the towing station and fly back to the galaxy to rescue your drones. I don't see this as too different from the current situation where your drones are left out to dry for 5 minutes while you're in stasis.

I would want to restrict towing station to be either in PvE space or be your HQ, so that when you're towed, you are safe from PvP. I have absolutely no problem with adding more juxes to Perilous, as long as we can beef the AI in there a bit.

Sounds good. address the problem with drones that are laid. having them teleport back to the towing station is one way, but that would be unfair to a pirate who would want to kill them. maybe half the laid drones teleport back over the station the ship is transferred to and half stay to either keep fighting or to die.

-ERMAN

We could make a new "Drone Recaller" item that sits on your ship and automatically scoops any deployed drones within a certain range upon stasis of the ship. I bet Engineers would like that one for PvE as well.

If towing is instant it would increase the time wasted by pirates even more...



Pod anyone who isn't an SD in perilous and they now have a 10-20 minute flight back out for no reason....

you have no idea. engineers would LOVE that (me beeing one of them)

also, did you know that when a Engineer dies and still has drones out, his drones loose bonuses Drasticly? as in then they are a piece of cake to pick off (or watch die)

More then anything as a DM, I hate my drones becoming worthless after I get podded.

If someone goes into Perilous with combat slaves, a pirate could kill that player and simply detain the slaves with a tractor, continuing to kill the player whenever he tried to come back to reclaim his slaves. With no way to regain his firepower, the player is kept from doing any PvE content (even out of the PvP zone) until the pirate gives up his game. Griefing accomplished.

I think that teleporting should be optional, with an added charge (up to maybe 100mil) with some of that going to the killer. I'm thinking of the system in Diablo II where you could either try to reclaim your corpse at the spot where it died, or log off and accept a loss in gold and XP.

As others have said, even with more staircase galaxies and juxtas in Perilous space, the time it takes to get back to what you were doing will likely exceed 5 minutes for slower classes.

Rofl, seriously?