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It is currently Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:34 am
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rickyrascal
Team:
Main: rascal
Level: 2012 Class:
Shield Monkey
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:29 pm Location: England
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
The Voomy One wrote: I havent seen the new stats for all engines but as I understood it there was one specific engine that was a bit too good in comparission to the others. Rhino Charge. So you can expect a little nerf to that one. Ouch , unless you have bar skills maxed or a primal rhino charge this will effect monkeys quite alot. Using PRE and PRH my ships already heavy as fuck. RC struggles as it is to keep my ship turning at a decent speed lol.
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:24 am |
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Dr Ingelbert
Team:
Main: Mouse
Level: 1845 Class:
Engineer
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:03 pm Location: Narfuk in England
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
Well my sheilded Venu Motor is now usless before it was 400 vis so i would get 200 with mod, now the base vis is 875 so i actually get more vis with the mod than the base vis before -_-
_________________ I Bark Very Little But I Know How To Bite............... Meow
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:30 am |
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sabre198
Member
Team:
Main: topbuzzz
Level: 4129 Class:
Shield Monkey
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:31 pm Location: Timmeh!
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
dare I ask how poor my *shielded emp propulsor is now?
_________________ --------------------------------------
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:04 am |
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andezrhode2a
Team:
Main: Paximaximus
Level: 2572 Class:
Engineer
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:51 pm
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
Enough fucking with Engine Vis. This is a all-round nerf....
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:25 am |
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Battlecruiser23
over 9000!
Team:
Main: Ghost Commander
Level: 1138 Class:
Berserker
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:36 pm
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
Just nerf the Rhino Charge down to where an OS FT is, and add a vis tag to the scaled dogfighting dps boost.
Keep PRC the way it is. Add the new engines.
_________________ Axis Industries
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:09 am |
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HAL
Dev Team
Team:
Main: HAL 9000
Level: 1002 Class:
Berserker
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:00 pm
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
Jeff has a flaw in his formula to determine engine visibility, I'm going to talk to him to get it fixed.
Edit: It looks like the old formula was thrown out the window already.
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:53 pm |
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JeffL
Site Admin / Dev Team
Team:
Main: Jeff_L
Level: 1028 Class:
Sniper
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:21 am Location: Santa Clara, CA
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
What engines do you guys as snipers currently use, and how heavy are your sniper ships?
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:45 pm |
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andezrhode2a
Team:
Main: Paximaximus
Level: 2572 Class:
Engineer
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:51 pm
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
Ive seen ULTs LTs VMotors and that shit used...
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:02 pm |
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Demiser of D
Team:
Main: Demiser of D
Level: 20 Class:
None
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:46 pm Location: Listening to Fire On High, best song ever.
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
Generally snipers will use lion thrusters if they can, vmotors otherwise, and occasionally in pvp they'll actually use stealth engines such as the qua vazuk(but almost always in combo with ace in a pill tweaks). I personally use an unholy lion thruster.
My sniper when fully geared weighs about 5 million weight.
_________________
JeffL wrote: That's it. I quit!
Battlecruiser23 wrote: Fuck you, Cygnus.
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:06 pm |
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thebattler35
Team:
Main: thebattler36
Level: 1791 Class:
Shield Monkey
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:24 am Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
Demiser of D wrote: Generally snipers will use lion thrusters if they can, vmotors otherwise, and occasionally in pvp they'll actually use stealth engines such as the qua vazuk(but almost always in combo with ace in a pill tweaks). I personally use an unholy lion thruster.
My sniper when fully geared weighs about 5 million weight. i think my ShM ward might be lighter than that would need to verify though >.<
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:55 pm |
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JeffL
Site Admin / Dev Team
Team:
Main: Jeff_L
Level: 1028 Class:
Sniper
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:21 am Location: Santa Clara, CA
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
This is what I was thinking the Snipers might like:
name / weight / space / turn / thrust / vis Thrust in Shadows / 1m / 91 / 225 / 8335 / 90 (500k more weight, 18% better stats, about the same vis) Bule Blackness / 28k / 63 / 104 / 2607 / 30 (roughly 3x its old stats) Fine Tuned Qua Vazuk / 168k / 25 / 74 / 1857 / 30 (little bit more vis, stats beefed by 9%) Oversized Moral Emphasis / 889k / 185 / 230 / 6331 / 90 (nearly 5x the stats)
I'll reduce the visibility on Venusian Motor and FT Venu Motor to 90. Not sure about Lion Thruster... It was 300 vis before, so doesn't seem exactly like a candidate to be made even somewhat stealthy.
I'm a little surprised to be hearing engines with 200-300 visibility being mentioned for sniper. Perhaps we should add a new catagory for engines that are just barely stealth and have about 250 visibility?
Edit: Note that Oversized Moral Emphasis is now better in every way for snipers than the Lion Thruster used to be.
I think actually the engine stats might be too good now, and I may have to back everything down about 15% from where it is. Still looking into it.
_________________ For support, please create a support ticket here and I will get back to you as soon as possible.
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:19 pm |
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thebattler35
Team:
Main: thebattler36
Level: 1791 Class:
Shield Monkey
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:24 am Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
JeffL wrote: This is what I was thinking the Snipers might like:
name / weight / space / turn / thrust / vis Thrust in Shadows / 1m / 91 / 225 / 8335 / 90 (500k more weight, 18% better stats, about the same vis) Bule Blackness / 28k / 63 / 104 / 2607 / 30 (roughly 3x its old stats) Fine Tuned Qua Vazuk / 168k / 25 / 74 / 1857 / 30 (little bit more vis, stats beefed by 9%) Oversized Moral Emphasis / 889k / 185 / 230 / 6331 / 90 (nearly 5x the stats)
I'll reduce the visibility on Venusian Motor and FT Venu Motor to 90. Not sure about Lion Thruster... It was 300 vis before, so doesn't seem exactly like a candidate to be made even somewhat stealthy.
I'm a little surprised to be hearing engines with 200-300 visibility being mentioned for sniper. Perhaps we should add a new catagory for engines that are just barely stealth and have about 250 visibility?
Edit: Note that Oversized Moral Emphasis is now better in every way for snipers than the Lion Thruster used to be.
I think actually the engine stats might be too good now, and I may have to back everything down about 15% from where it is. Still looking into it. on Snipers using high vis engines: This only works because the engines used are high vis and have really high thrust + turning, so they only need to tap thrust to move forward at a good speed. On Engine stats, if engines get beefed Tractors need a beef, particularly Engineer tractors, either that or SD needs a major nerf to turn + thrust... Maybe a -weight as opposed to +turn and thrust, that way they can be tractored but still retain agility. without needing to beef engi tractors.
_________________
Octo wrote: QFT Octo either owned the fish initially, or scooped it when he podded any/all of the above.
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:30 pm |
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Battlecruiser23
over 9000!
Team:
Main: Ghost Commander
Level: 1138 Class:
Berserker
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:36 pm
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
Normal Vis Engines: Light Engine Medium Engine Large Engine
Stealth Engines: Light Stealth Heavy Stealth
LS is very small, and is very stealthy, but have poor agility(which is balanced out by ZoA/ZoT and Recon Focus
HS is larger, medium sized, and have much better agility, but a reduced stealth bonus.
There, you have stealth engines.
As for the Rhino Charge, it costs like 500m MAX, yet is the best engine for Freighters that can drop. It may be T20, but any nitwit can get eng20.
The issue is not that it can drop, but it can drop often. Giga FT is as good, but it comes from like DF400 dgs, which can be harder to do for a squad than Big Rhino..especially since the UZ is in freaking w0 and DF400 is well, past the drops, grim, and battleship swarms...then through a dg full of nasty ai.
Rhino has a nice chance of dropping a RC, but the DF400's...not so much.
Another thing, the Bule MPD Force has terrible stats, which I know will be rebalanced, but keep in mind that its another candidate engine for freighters.
The final engine is the FT IID, but thats 5k less turning than a RC. It's a Fine Tuned engine....
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:39 pm |
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Demiser of D
Team:
Main: Demiser of D
Level: 20 Class:
None
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:46 pm Location: Listening to Fire On High, best song ever.
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
Jeffl wrote: I'm a little surprised to be hearing engines with 200-300 visibility being mentioned for sniper. Perhaps we should add a new catagory for engines that are just barely stealth and have about 250 visibility?
Yeah, the reason we use these is because its extremely nice to be able to actually move when we want to or need to, but if we need to be stealthy we can do that, as well, by simply tapping rapidly on the thrust key. This cuts our acceleration way down, of course, but we're also undetectable. The reason giving engines over, say, 300 vis hurts snipers, is because at that point even tapping brings you up to 50-100 vis each tap, which is easily visible to ANY class. The way it is at the moment, a sniper can use just about any engine, so long as they do it skillfully(it actually takes a little bit of effort to get good at tap-moving), with these changes many engines will simply be off-limits to snipers. In addendum to this, there really is no practical difference between 90 vis max and 300 vis maximum; Both are high enough that it requires tapping to move stealthily. This might not seem to make sense, but you also have to consider that the difference between 1 and 3 visibility is the difference between many AI having to be on top of me to see me, to seeing me from a good distance...it becomes more apparent. A SD can ping and see me while i'm completely stealthed from at least 500 distance, and some can even see me at up to 1000 distance away. The difference between 1 and 3 vis becomes the difference between being seen at 1000 range and being seen at my maximum range. At 90 visibility, you're visible to anyone. In light of all this, i think that you should just balance all engines to have high visibility, EXCEPT for the specific small engines that didn't have high vis before, such as the qua vazuk, etc. Balance ALL the other engines however you want to, but then give snipers something like -90% engine visibility; On a Unholy Lion Thruster, they'd get 90.9 visibility, which is almost exactly what stealth engines have at the moment. That way, everyone is happy, because all engines are potentially useful to ALL classes.
_________________
JeffL wrote: That's it. I quit!
Battlecruiser23 wrote: Fuck you, Cygnus.
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Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:44 pm |
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andezrhode2a
Team:
Main: Paximaximus
Level: 2572 Class:
Engineer
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:51 pm
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Re: Jeff - Engine rebalance
I think just tweak the vis on LT/PLT/ULT....So endgame snipers get the finest gear, til then, suck it up.
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Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:39 am |
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