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It is currently Sat Sep 28, 2024 6:43 am
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Aurora Ex Machina
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:43 pm
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
andezrhode2a wrote: While it is true Gunners are the only Ammo using class, Engineers with Drones
Please see: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=40309Drones have received a lot of changes, including temporary diffusers that notify you if they get destroyed - hopefully this will help DMs.
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Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:55 am |
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thebattler35
Team:
Main: thebattler36
Level: 1791 Class:
Shield Monkey
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:24 am Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
Are there any plans to add missiles with varying stats and effects/damage types for different situations?
If so I and a few others have discussed it in depth in the past.
I'd be happy to offer my suggestions on How to work the different damage types and the differences that there should be between them. (were well received in the past)
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Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:30 am |
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Zekk
Member
Team:
Main: Kyp
Level: 2610 Class:
Engineer
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:49 pm Location: my desk
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
On the ammo issue: both engineers and fleet commanders use destructible though reusable items as a large part of their dps, so i dont know how valid a point it is to give that as a concession to gunner's limitations compared to other classes. Also, increasing the number of types of missiles we can use runs us into the problem of the staggering amount of hull they could take up. six different types of missiles at 50 per crate, 3 space per missile... thats 900 space, which i doubt many gunners have (unless you want us augging dreads sup resist caly ) just keep that in mind. I notice you haven't addressed the issue of the limited number of missles we can fire, yet one comment in particular seems to indicate some missiles will take time out of ship to activate... so not only are we stuck with just 2/3 missiles but we have to keep them alive for 5 seconds out of ship before they do anything? Finally: i think DPH -> damage per hit in this context... cheers.
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Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:07 pm |
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Neolation
Team:
Main: =Neo=
Level: 2230 Class:
Fleet Commander
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 4:23 pm Location: Near your cookies
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
Will missile speed be increased?
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Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:02 pm |
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thecrazygamemaster
Team:
Main: The Crazy Game Maste
Level: 1031 Class:
Engineer
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:15 am Location: TARDIS, Time Vortex, Main Universe, Reality, Big Bang 2, Multiverse 1
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
easy fix for the commod problem: give gunners missile generators and give DMs drone gg!!
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JeffL wrote: Maybe you guys are right. We can leave things how they are for now and get more feedback later.
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Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:48 pm |
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rand4505
Team:
Main: Hooch Dealer
Level: 2763 Class:
Gunner
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:20 pm Location: Who is John Galt?
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
I am re-classing when this happens and or quitting.
_________________ 3 Basic types of players(quitters, losers, and winners) Choose your own fate.
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Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:09 pm |
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saran
Team:
Main: goldstar-stations
Level: 2020 Class:
Engineer
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:54 pm
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
There have been topics on this so it's pretty much a modified rehash... But missile speeds and the max missiles in space needs tweaking. And as people have already said... The logistics needs to be taken into account. That's a LOT of space required for missiles and I don't need to tell you it's not feasable to split ammo space over all the types. Before this stuff goes live it needs to be carefully thought through from as many angles as possible.
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Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:34 pm |
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urzaserra256
Team:
Main: urzaserra2
Level: 2549 Class:
Gunner
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:34 am
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
Are there going to be missiles with different damage types added? To me one problem with gunner is the extreme focus on mining damage. I would like to see at least energy and heat missiles or class locked weapons of those types at least. If different damage types are added i wouldn't mind if they were lower damage then the 5k large ap type 3. Energy so i feel useful in copper and heat for iq bana.
If the admins don't want to add these can we have the ais needed to get the large ap type 3 bp changed from the levle 1400 iq bana ais currently?
Missile speeds need to be increased i think, or an item that instantly destroys all missiles currently deployed.
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Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:16 pm |
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jeff mc beth
Team:
Main: Jeff Bobbo
Level: 2048 Class:
Gunner
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:19 pm Location: Not where you are right now
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
urzaserra256 wrote: Missile speeds need to be increased i think, or an item that instantly destroys all missiles currently deployed. THAT, or a button, and fixing for the damn visibility issues, you gave out a fix once which doesn't fucking work half the time.
And as other people said, with all these missile types, you need to think about people's hull spaces. I don't want to swap out my lovely 300k shields, 1k4 range, and high DPS, for some shitty setup I used like 6 months ago just because I liked the agility from the Caly.
PS; I wanner play with changes on test before they go live.
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Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:51 am |
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anilv
Member
Team:
Main: enkelin
Level: 3002 Class:
Speed Demon
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:28 pm
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
jeff mc beth wrote: urzaserra256 wrote: Missile speeds need to be increased i think, or an item that instantly destroys all missiles currently deployed. THAT, or a button, and fixing for the damn visibility issues, you gave out a fix once which doesn't fucking work half the time.
And as other people said, with all these missile types, you need to think about people's hull spaces. I don't want to swap out my lovely 300k shields, 1k4 range, and high DPS, for some shitty setup I used like 6 months ago just because I liked the agility from the Caly.
PS; I wanner play with changes on test before they go live. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the objection, but if you are saying that you won't have space for missiles of every damage type, then I don't have much sympathy. My DS only have two weapons slots to begin with, and I rarely pack more than one weapon anyway out of space considerations.
_________________ (DefQon1) use a Rhino reconstruotereatarerer - (Pasta) I need to figure out how to get rid of this UrQa Suqqa Ukuk (Bluenoser) Put your finger in your mouth and gag reflex should do the rest
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Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:06 am |
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jeff mc beth
Team:
Main: Jeff Bobbo
Level: 2048 Class:
Gunner
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:19 pm Location: Not where you are right now
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
anilv wrote: Maybe I'm misunderstanding the objection, but if you are saying that you won't have space for missiles of every damage type, then I don't have much sympathy. My DS only have two weapons slots to begin with, and I rarely pack more than one weapon anyway out of space considerations. And? I only get a bit more space than needed for 50 missiles out, around 50 crates and 50 fuel, this doesn't include tweaks, or overloaders.
_________________
Javatech wrote: Battlecruiser23 wrote: I am a Troll, ignore everything I say.
JeffL wrote: Are you kidding me? Our C2 music is way better than that boring garbage you linked.
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Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:29 am |
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saran
Team:
Main: goldstar-stations
Level: 2020 Class:
Engineer
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:54 pm
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
jeff mc beth wrote: anilv wrote: Maybe I'm misunderstanding the objection, but if you are saying that you won't have space for missiles of every damage type, then I don't have much sympathy. My DS only have two weapons slots to begin with, and I rarely pack more than one weapon anyway out of space considerations. And? I only get a bit more space than needed for 50 missiles out, around 50 crates and 50 fuel, this doesn't include tweaks, or overloaders.Your the last person who should comment on this thread Aniliv. We are taking space nessisary to maintain effective dps. SD achieves this, gunner will not. Why? Because these changes still don't do a damn thing about the two biggest problems. First being the speed of the missiles, second is either launching them fast enough or being able to launch a sufficiant number to be effective. Both really boil down to lack of any real DPS from missiles in a real fight where the enemy stays at some kind of range and happens to kill all the missiles aimed at it wile beating the shit out of the gunner. Missiles are just ineffectual at range. No battle class I know of has difficulty killing them or preventing them from hitting a target.
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Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:22 pm |
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Aurora Ex Machina
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:43 pm
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
saran wrote: First being the speed of the missiles, second is either launching them fast enough or being able to launch a sufficiant number to be effective. I would please remind people to read carefully. Aurora Ex Machina wrote: - PvE & PvP focused missile types
- To counter this, most likely there will be a tech tree of "defensive" missiles, aka flares / decoys.
Current ideas: 1a) PvE missiles will be almost exclusively -effect. This includes high speed (and I mean high speed - I'm playing with nimble 650 speed ones atm for T20) +vis "tagging" missiles and -speed -thrust "goo" missiles. Once you have debuffed a target, then you can focus on damaging them. SDs will no longer be totally -vis and only vulnerable to seers anymore. Note: non-Gunners can use these missiles, just with less duration / effect. 1b) There will be a sub-set of extremely damaging but slow missiles. If you can get one to hit a target, then expect fireworks. 2) I'm looking at specialised "casings" builds. i.e. You build a <type> of missile with a <casing> that gives % resist. This will prevent AI / Players from just picking all missiles off with the same weapons. 3) Space constraints: Drones / Fighters you get back, unless you're unlucky. Looking at the weight / space of launchers & missiles, coupled with hard-caps, I think we can work a bit on this. 3a) Possible Capital expanders, for FCs / Gunners. 3b) Weight on missiles reduced significantly (currently 3k / missile) 3c) Potential to slightly decrease size / missile, and given hard-caps on hulls, launchers can be made slightly smaller (perhaps) 4) Flares / Decoys - two subsets. 4a) Low speed, high (for a missile) bank decoy that adds large amounts of ++hostility and draws fire 4b) MIRV / Chaff / Flare firer - missile that launches X*Tech level flares / chaff that are basically 1 shot attractants for fire These will both have to have slower launch times / large energy constraints to prevent people spamming them like pest drones for ubers 5) Specialist missiles - MIRVs, Capital Broadsides (aka, launch x10 missiles at once, lose ability to fire again for X seconds) and so on... working on, discussing, seeing what works. Again. This is a process. Please read carefully what has been written (and in the other thread, linked at start), and forget the histrionics such as "OMG I'm gonna be NERFED" and "I QUIT"; the better the feedback, the better the end result will be. Thank you. In other news, Jey informed me that we can easily set the minimum and maximum distances for missiles to be able to be launched. This was a major problem with coding different missile types... turns out, we can do it already. Work speeded up 50%!
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Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:09 pm |
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UnpleasantPantsBulge
Team:
Main: UnpleasantPantsBulge
Level: 2092 Class:
Berserker
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:02 pm
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
It looks good and will make that class more intresting. Not just spamming a hotkey all day day killing everything in sight. The casings and flars sound cool. I've never been a gunner so i can't tell you much more than that.
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Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:32 pm |
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gary1992
Team:
Main: thebeast
Level: 2787 Class:
Gunner
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:32 am
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Re: Gunners - Preliminary Change Notes
Sounds good to me, make the class a little more interactive and require some strategy.
_________________ Albert Einstein - “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”
Napoléon - “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”
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Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:44 pm |
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