Is anyone else wondering why the turning stats are a factor of 10 too low?

Sorry, I had forgotten that the client multiplies all the turning numbers by 10 to make them look prettier.

even having the turning multiplied by ten man those are weak.

Particle Churn / 89k / 35 / 1801 / 5700 / 90 / Tech 7 and 1m cost.
Cloud Flow / 453k / 77 / 2983 / 12700 / 90 / Tech 10 and 6.7m cost.
Giga Cloud Flow / 612k / 276 / 4027 / 17200 / 90 / Gargan missions.
Cute Drive / 96k / 13 / 2271 / 6100 / 90 / T10 obtained by capping.
Bule Real Keeper / 175k / 38 / 2393 / 9400 / 90 / T9 common bule ruin.
Qua Vazuk / 167k / 37 / 2008 / 8000 / 29 / T20 Bana drop.
Bule Abadi Darkness / 315k / 65 / 1572 / 5600 / 10 / T19 Rare Bule Ruin. -15% vis.
Moral Emphasis / 269k / 86 / 2500 / 9500 / 29 / DG drop.

These are current stats on Test. Consider these stats in comparison to your stats Jeff Even the standard Moral Emphasis is better than your "updated" Oversized one.

Tonight, talking in team chat, we came to the decision that it would be ideal if you just left UZ engines exactly the way they are at the moment, and then beefed everything else up to be comparitive.

The way things are atm on test is just ridiculous. The amount of work you're setting yourself up for is insane. Have you even thought about the time wasted in rebalancing tractors, knockback weapons, the weight of every item in the game, and the stats of every AI in the game, just to make sure nothing really stupid happens? Its going to be MASSIVE.

Plus, you're pissing a lot of people off with the visibility changes!

I, for one, just want things to go back to where they were! Things are just fine at the moment, why fix something that aint borked to begin with?

I figure still do the Emp Prop update. Bork Stealth SDs, and beef a3's mining FWing!

Well, the problem is that we have 18 new tech 21 engines being added to the game, and without any sort of balancing formulas, the stats we come up with will be more or less random, like the UZ engines stats which in my opinion are just awful for the good of the game.

I think the new formulas I've come up with are pretty good so far, and I thank everyone for the input. I think the current main disconnect with what will work for everyone and what I have is that people are using engines that I was considering to be not at all suitable for stealth as stealth engines, like the Lion Thruster. Old engine visibility values were just random numbers picked out of the air. I currently have the visibility values as fixed constants for engines considered to be "a little stealthy", "stealthy", and "very stealthy", and a multiple of the thrust power for all the rest.

I think what I'm going to do for engines like the Lion Thruster is to make the visibility proportional to the sqrt of the thrust rather than just the thrust and have it land back around at what it was before. I might also modify the engines visibility by the inverse of the turn/thrust ratio.

I'm all for this rebalance provided you don't flog the dead horse that Sniper has become. We're a combat class dammit >.<

Always makes me lol.

Im glad that you're doing that, because as it is, you have one class that sucks, and you're really hurting only that class. I mean, 1600 visibility on a unholy lion thruster? Seriously?

Thanks for the beef to the Giga moral emphasis...i guess...

The only problem being its still 100% useless. Its visibility is high enough that you have to tap-move, its 49 size bigger than the ULT used to be, it has no +5% speed modifier, and its stats are roughly 33% worse.

Let me paraphrase and boldify that for you.

Its visibility is too high, its 49 size bigger than the ULT, and its stats are roughly 33% worse.

And its the best "Stealth" engine out there.

I have a feeling that many snipers will be using the new sniper only engine after we patch.

i went on test the other day.. i feel like stealth SDs got a huge kick to the ass by giving emp prop a nice vis increase and i'm happy with that.

by the way, Whats gonna happen to the Annihilator Thruster?
i dont have one and i care much about Albatross getting even worse agility than what he has now >.<

While I love the fact my Bule Magnetoplasmadynamic type Engines are very very powerful, why couldn't they be stealth engines for Snipers?

The Bule are makers of very advanced Engines, but could not figure out how to make stealth engines for half their Race.

Sounds pretty stupid.

ULT is a bloody rare item and shouldnt be worse then LT or get a 33% nerf, Zerks use em too, not just damn snipers.

Snipers shouldn't get nerfed from using it, either! its a damn rare and nice item!