This concept of PAX OL change to panel seems very interesting. I hope it will take the OL slot or regular pax will be in some setups much better than Rhino for DM. Ofc Rhino has more hull and some other intrinsics to counter.

Which reminds me. Is it just me or is there a way to check stats of ship form ship. I would like to know complete stats of Rhino because something is changed. Since I don't have item form rhino in stock, I can't verify what is changed. It just performs differently. I can't also add it to trade bay because i haven't "seen" it item form. Could you add some way of checking built in stats of ones shipform ship. Could be behind "ship" button or dialogue showing in Space Station when docked.

Still loving to play as DM. Theres shitton of more diversity in gameplay now. My hat is off to admins. I was bit bored end of prev uni. But hell.. Playing as DM has REAL challenge now. And I love it. Could use little bit more resists to drones tho' .... Oh yea.. and Rhino Hide is completely useless .. Was that intentional? I don't care much tho' since I am already using better shield.

-Thaj

panel in OL slot... right

DS will be way stronger then panther now, I surely believe that Panthers should get some beef, maybe like the 50% inbuild damage( instead of the +10% one) someone mentioned above me. But when I look at it now I wanna trade my panther for a DS, since the -range will be gone now and the OL.

Panthers will not be worth making this way, they used to be very high end gear.

I have increased the hull on panther to be the same as on the DS. We will start with that but if the DS is considered stronger we can give the panther something extra later. Im open to suggestions.

Howabout an inbuilt +10 or 20% to crit? It's primarily used by SD and Seer, both Crit intensive classes.. better than dmg imo since it wouldn't be all the time, but a good beef none the less.

In accordance to Point #38 in the topics first post let me say thank you. It's great to know that the admins will look at the smaller problems as well as the larger problems. as far as i know I'm the only one with a PZL as well

as ur all going on about UZ ships , i'd like to say wheres the rhnios ships aura/tweek ,like panther has panther ambush ,zebra has zebra wind and rhino gets a 7% shield boots ,will rhino ever get a real tweek like the speed boost ai rhinos get, idk maybe -50 % weight and small speed boost ?

Well, I feel as though DS has always been a +Damage -Range type thing, whereas panther always had that extra bit of range if you augged right. Now with the new DS OL GREATLY beating any other OL that you could find (Minus OS6, or titan OL etc) But even then, powering an OS6 is a hassle.

My suggestion is to turn the DS OL to 60% Damage and -25% Range. This still gives it about the same DPS as before, but it keeps it inferior to the panther.

If thats not a possibility, possibly give the panther an inbuilt 20% or so damage boost to now compete.

SDs usually have trouble powering their weps, so adding a -RoF stat to the DS actually helps SDs considerably, and along with the +70% damage things get a bit OPed, in my opinion.

~BD

Guess I could give it a bit of -range

Trust me, if you're a DM in a rhino, you do not want that tweak UZ rhinos get.

Woke up to find a couple of my weaps almost tripled in size (jiji went from 75 to 215, venu mag went from 110 to 289) and my speed cut by 13%. Irritating, but I can adapt if peeps think such changes will make the game better.

Did run into something more serious, though -- finally docked and started to check effects of the updates on my other ships. When I tried to undock my Emp Behe, got an Event msg that said "Insufficient skill in Support Focus to undock with this ship."

Is this a bug or part of the planned changes? If a bug, please fix as soon as you can. If part of the re-balance, what arrangements have been made to help those of us who now have ships (and mebbe other gear) that we can't use or transfer? The character is SD (Recon Focus) and I want to stay that way.

I'm guessing that's a bug, but I'm not certain. Ill look into it.

The venu mag should be smaller after the next patch.

I'm fairly sure the Emp Behe used to be Support Focus-only a while ago, not sure why that changed in the first place.

The strength and weakness of the DS is that built in OL. It's built in, so you can't take advantage of all the other OL's out there, so it _needs_ to be strong.

The vulture and panther can use any OL, so they have choices. That's a huge advantage, in and of itself. Using almost any of the disposable OLs, a vulture can out range a DS. OS6, and it can out DPS and out range a DS.

Pump the DS's OL up, and I won't disagree with a negative range, but give it something to compensate for that. It should be as much better than the vulture, as the panther is to it. The suggestion that someone had, of adding crit bonuses in, would benefit both LF classes, makes the DS unique and not just the mid-line subcompact car.


Just cause the horse is dead, doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be beat...

Vulture, 4 augs now, faster, bigger hull (unless that's changed with the rebalance), very slightly less resists (except to rad...), no built in OL, inbuilt Elec. Oh, and free battle scoop with radar bonus, missile and launcher.

In every way but Visibility and some slight resists, the vulture is now superior to the DS... except for the Silent Death. How much better does the SD need to be to make up for the Vulture's extra's?

And if one compares to panthers, the SD's 50% damage, compared to the 40% damage the Panther gets with a Titan OL plus the extra range, makes the Panther more powerful. And that doesn't count the ambush aura, which effectively gives another 13% dps (100% for 8 seconds, out of 60, gives 13% per second), ie. 53% damage boost, 30% range. Considering that range is 1.8-2.5 to 1 when valued against Damage in the aug realm, that extra 30% range is roughly equal to 12-17% damage, for a grand total of 65-70% and no drawbacks. And the panther has the choice to put on OL's with other stats including RoF and Range based ones.

Now, I wouldn't object to beefing the panther, but using the current panther as a "control" on whether the SD on the DS needs beefing is intellectually dishonest. And not beefing the DS but leaving the vulture as is, should be criminal.

ANYONE who wants to trade me a panther for a DS, let me know, I will _gladly_ take that offer. In a heartbeat. In the meantime, I'll be investing in upgrading my speed demon from his DS to the much superior Vulture.

DS is getting a +70% damage, -15% RoF, -Some % Range OL, which is a considerable beef.

And dont forget, for 7 seconds, panther also has a +400% recoil, so we lose considerable DPS in those 7 seconds.

I think the DS' OL will be the best thus far, but it shall be balanced in accordance with the other ships.

~BD