This isn't about stealthy SD's, though that may be a symptom of problems. This is about the visibility system being completely broken before, where ships were either completely visible to everyone or completely invisible to everyone. The old visibility system simply wasn't any good and it was impossible to tweak Seer's and Snipers under it. The new system is far superior in that there is an actual gradient to the visibility and detection. I don't feel that SS2 can be launched with the old visibility system, which is why I implemented the new one.

Although I dont think this was directed right at me, I will clarify anyways (for others as well that may have misunderstood). I seen this as a bad way to attempt to fix ANY stealthy class that shouldn't normally (and easily) be stealthy, not just SDs.

If you'll notice I did not say that the new visibility system was a bad idea (at least not in that post). Just that It shouldn't have been put in game until the kinks are worked out. You guys generally like to rush into putting stuff in for some reason. This was a good example of that, at first, it seemed like you wanted to get this tested and put in over like a 3 day period, totally unacceptable by ANY standard.

I take as much advice from the players as I possibly can. But please appreciate that much of the advice is contradictory or counter-productive. Some of you have been extremely helpful, though, and I appreciate it immensely. I'm not trying to ignore any serious problems, but also please understand there are hundreds of posts here as well as tickets, emails, and PM's come to me every day. There's a ton of information coming in at me and it's often tough to spot or keep track of what information is valid/useful. I'm trying my best, really.

I understand that a lot of the advice given to you wont work, but when you have several people all saying the same thing, you should take notes. For example, everyone is telling you that your balance sheets should be thrown out the window and that you need to manually adjust cloaks to fit the system you are trying to put in place. Yet you repetitively argue that your balance sheets work perfect and that you need to make gear unusably large to keep it balanced with their current stats.

Off topic to stealth, but still on topic to advice: Another good example of where a lot of people say something is wrong, and it gets ignored is Missiles, almost EVERY major gunner has said that the way missiles are used is broken (over powerd) in several threads, and that there are some rather serious bugs with them. Almost all of those gunners have also provided ways (most are almost identical) to resolve these issues. I have even went as far as to post the more serious ones, with several fixes each, in the bugs section (which I will bump, again), and it has gone apparently completely un-noticed.

If you'd like to help me continue to improve the game, please limit the posts which are basically Spam or complaining. Give me posts in the form of "There's a problem with specific item A because of B. It would be better if you changed it in this specific way." Maybe I missed some specific points in this really long thread, but the two concrete points I've seen here were about the tech 9 seer cloak and the built in cloak, both of which I'm attempting to address in an acceptable way.

Again, not sure this was directed right at me, but I'll respond anyways just in case. Although it was VERY general, my post was neither complaining, nor spamming. It was a very direct way of saying your going about things (not just stealth) the wrong way (and in the wrong order), when there are simpler, more effective ways to achieve the same, or almost the same result. I have given you (the admin/dev team) lists of very specific problems, and usually lists of specific solutions for each problem, and they typically get no response. Most are still currently problems in game.

I see that you are taking advice on some of the cloaks, that's a step in the right direction, but it also needs to be applied across the board, as in other topics, including your approach on the balance sheets (size isn't everything for instance).

i think it was hooch who suggested that each class should have its own innate visibility on top of the visibility of the ships/items. this may be an easier way to be sure the hot stuff stays hot and the cool stuff stays cool.

IF you can correctly balance stealth in order for classes to still be stealthy using augs etc I'll agree with this. but faster, more vis, doesn't make sense

basically the way he structured his suggestion was that each class had a base vis and it wasnt enough to keep you from using stealthy stuff, as long as there were augs and your gear was setup for it. it just meant you had to use a stealth aug to make a stealth setup, and stealth gear was more important.

thats how i really think it should be balanced, it would even be easier. because what works for one class is broken on another, so they can tweak the individual classes till they get what works for them. it also doesn't bar anyone from using a stealth setup but means that they will sacrifice something for that stealth if they are not a stealth class.

fairest way i can see of doing it. and best suggestion i have seen in a long time.

IF you can correctly balance stealth in order for classes to still be stealthy using augs etc I'll agree with this. but faster, more vis, doesn't make sense

Maybe its just me, but I imagine "stealth" to be more of a "sneaking around" type thing, not barreling around at high speeds while still being completely invisible. From a game balance perspective it just doesn't make any sense and has to be fixed somehow.

Perhaps an alternative implementation would be to cap the ship speed while the cloak is enabled, rather than simply disabling or limiting the effectiveness of the cloak once you exceed the speed limit. So for example, if you are in a panther and you turn on your cloak, you are limited to 135 speed regardless of any speed bonuses you might have. This prevents you from accidentally becoming more visible if you wanted to stay stealthy.

IF i were truely invisible, but that is NOT the case

Maybe its just me, but I imagine "stealth" to be more of a "sneaking around" type thing, not barreling around at high speeds while still being completely invisible. From a game balance perspective it just doesn't make any sense and has to be fixed somehow.

Perhaps an alternative implementation would be to cap the ship speed while the cloak is enabled, rather than simply disabling or limiting the effectiveness of the cloak once you exceed the speed limit. So for example, if you are in a panther and you turn on your cloak, you are limited to 135 speed regardless of any speed bonuses you might have. This prevents you from accidentally becoming more visible if you wanted to stay stealthy.

Maybe its just me, but I imagine "stealth" to be more of a "sneaking around" type thing, not barreling around at high speeds while still being completely invisible. From a game balance perspective it just doesn't make any sense and has to be fixed somehow.

Perhaps an alternative implementation would be to cap the ship speed while the cloak is enabled, rather than simply disabling or limiting the effectiveness of the cloak once you exceed the speed limit. So for example, if you are in a panther and you turn on your cloak, you are limited to 135 speed regardless of any speed bonuses you might have. This prevents you from accidentally becoming more visible if you wanted to stay stealthy.