I'm f2p, yeah I should not even talk about "endgame" stuff.

Still I'm interested and wonder:

Looking through the forums, tla and talking to high lvl players I wonder about fighting as Seer, with stealth.

From what I got through all this a Seer explorer or transporter works quite fine. The critical point seems to be fighting which is an essential part of the game.

To start, a Sniper is quite easy to understand - he hides, seeks his enemy and at the right moment does a single shot - "one shot - one kill" (ideal case). If I'm not wrong he may do up to 64k dam/shot without any neuro tweak in a ship fitting his class and still have a very low vis.

Seer is different - he shall not and can't in a reasonable setup do such dam per shot.
Ok, so far so good - but now if he shall not do "one shot - one kill" but still shall fight efficiently in a stealthy manner how he shall do that?

If you shoot you get your firing vis (10k), which seems to be not reduced by anthing and last for something above 2 sec.
If you cannot kill something by a single shot you need (especially for high lvl targets) a sufficient dps (so I've no idea how much that would be). So you'll try to shoot continously.
By doing this you'll have continoulsy your firing vis as there are only very few weapons with a high recoil - one that is at least higher than the lasting of your firing vis (should be at least sec).
Augs to conter this seems to be only available at low lvl (to be specific - the Tear aug with which you still loose quite some dps).

So how does the Seer fight using stealth?
If he shoots continously - and stays visible by doing that - there is the difference to a "normal" fighter except the first stealthy shoot from behind the enemy?

If he does not do it like that and always waits to get stealthy again and be able to attack from behind - how does he coop then with the loose in dps compared to other classes?

Thx for any input to this - I'll highly appreciate it (so I'm not really gonna benefitting from it for another uni ).

from what i know, its exactly the same style as sniper. cept seer has neat things. Also since seer comes prestealthed, you dont have to aug as much for stealth and can dedicate more to damage per shot.

Also, look out for the new seer mission items to be uploaded to the wiki soon. The weapons are really neat. and im getting stats on the other things soon.

but for real input on seer. talk to i think its lich?

I'm somewhat new to seer, but I have been playing on a seer for almost this whole uni. Seer is simple. You need a ship that is nimble(ish) to start off with. Of course, we dont do as much as snipers, but we can if we get an ambush/crit. What I do to kill stuff is I float towards them, shoot them from behind, and they turn to shoot me, and I go in the opposite direction of where they are turning for the 3 secs I am visible. Rinse and repeat until it goes boom. Our worst enemies are AI with a lot of turning/thrust. If you shoot and they turn around and smack you in half a second, your screwed. Also, AI with high tracking lasers are a pain in the ass to kill.

So theres the jist of seer for ya.

Thx for the input both of you:

I heard that were should be new weapons - Seer specific - but as they're not yet on tla I couldn't check them out

Of course I've talked to Lich (and a lot of others, quite some time ago) and specifically looked for any post of him in the forums.
But as summary I always get the same answer - don't go Seer below lvl 1k (and it's expensive but that's not really the point - some classes are cheap and easy but that's ok for me).

I see that there are mainly two weapons when one reaches Weap T20:
- Lion V2 Rocket
- Mercurian Desintegrater
they're the only ones who actually fits what I expected to be Seer weapons - high dam per shot and high recoil, but they're both Energy weapons (limiting the choice of dam types) and are T20.

I maybe should try to directly talk again to those guys as I've since then put a lot of more thought and investigation (calc'ing through of some stuff also) into it but thought this way would also benefit others who're intersted in this matter.

About the targetting thing:
I use it against stealthy enemies often - keep one target choosen and as soon as it appears again on my targetting screen I fire my (beloved) MTD. Killing stealthy AI at my lvl is not difficult as they try to shoot you - getting visible - and you can dodge their output pretty easily funny is especially those little Ghostships who tends to use Neuro tweaks ensuring their fast death.
But as I only kill AIs up to lvl 400 I thought I shouldn't mention that at all as it may be much different for higher lvl's and as I'm fighting the stealthy AI and not vice versa.

So in result jsn0X you say that you sacrifice quite some dps not using the full RoF of your weapon/setup but that it doesn't matter.

All you have to do is get near someone, use a PowerPunch, do like 100k damage, then use a PWI, and you're 2.5k away. Stealth and you wont get shot.

Ta da

~BD

Thats crucial. The reason you don't go Seer before 1k is because of skills. Its almost impossible for you to have maxed all your class skills by then, and if they aren't max, your going to die, simple as.

V2 Rocket is suicide. I'm not sure if you've seen it, but they are one huge SLOW moving thorax. If you look at Seer, 60% of our damage [we have a lot of multipliers, so our damage can have well over 150% variance] is based on hitting from behind. The rocket is unreliable, will most likely miss and will most likely NOT hit from behind.

Thats also why'd I'd recommend not going Seer if you dont have a T19/T20 [Preferably DS/Panther] Light Fighter. Reaver is the ONLY HF I'd have recommend, and due to the change of the laser, I'd stay away from it now.

ooo, i love the challenge you gave me, lich.

What about BSS, Mz Liquid, Pretty Boy, Locution, and Jujuso'rka?

Was not aware I had set much of a challenge.
BSS and Jujuso'rka are far too heavy to even think about being Seer, you'd gain more out of being Sniper. Mz Liquid is not high tech enough to allow you to use the real stealth augs. Pretty Boy - WTF?!
Locution - Possibility, but I'd say if your using a locu your better off going something easy like SD, because you wont have the hull for the gear. And face it, if your using a locu, you won't have the gear for Seer in the first place.

Myth uses BSS and it works real well for him

Which is why hes an idiot. It'd work BETTER as Sniper.
Hmm lets see, use a hard annoying skill, or use another skill with the exact same equipment, but will increase your damage by a crap load..hard choice.

Myth is a sniper. He also use a V2 as it doesnt need to hit from behind to kill most ai in one shot.

Then hes not stupid. Thats exactly what I'd recommend then.

With a Mzungu pulse shotty, you can get around 550 Damage per shot, MAX. and With a bule shotty you could get more, yes, but it would be impossible to one-shot stuff without skills. If you get a critical, maybe, but it would only be a 50% damage boost, seeing that each different shotty shot counts as different... So you could get around 750 damage a shot with no skills at all, but its still not enough to one shot stuff. Whats more effective is to use a sthorax, and you get 300 DPS or so, compared to 25 or so from the shotty.

Shut up Demiser.