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It is currently Mon Jun 17, 2024 1:18 am
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Griffin
Team:
Main: Stabberz
Level: 2153 Class:
Gunner
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:55 am
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Re: Gunner
shawn_mccall wrote: Drop the FC aura to 25%. Beef destruction to 30%.
Problem solved, and FCs no longer give obscene bonuses for 0 effort + pocket change. And make it so that Destruction is to all damage sources. It's bad enough that it is single-target and requires firing. Alternatively, make it to the same damage type the Gunner is using, and make it area-of-effect.
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Blue Dwarf wrote: In space, no one can hear you cha cha cha.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:24 pm |
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shawn_mccall
Team:
Main: shawn - mccall
Level: 2411 Class:
Fleet Commander
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:53 am
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Re: Gunner
Griffin wrote: shawn_mccall wrote: Drop the FC aura to 25%. Beef destruction to 30%.
Problem solved, and FCs no longer give obscene bonuses for 0 effort + pocket change. And make it so that Destruction is to all damage sources. It's bad enough that it is single-target and requires firing. Nein, I love the single damage type boost.Alternatively, make it to the same damage type the Gunner is using, and make it area-of-effect. Interesting, I think I like it. And of course give us more general use missile damage types.
2 easy changes that fix gunner completely. Why is this still being ignored instead of implemented?
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Neba wrote: BLACK PEOPLE DON'T GET RICE
andezrhode wrote: goett wrote: All oly ships look way to geometrically conservative for my tastes. thats because most graphic designers are squares
goett wrote: Fired bullets taste like candy.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:28 pm |
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Griffin
Team:
Main: Stabberz
Level: 2153 Class:
Gunner
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:55 am
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Re: Gunner
Not completely, still missing missile changes, content, and weapon dps.
Make missiles come in packs of 4 (turns regular missiles into missile packs) launches 4 missiles from the sides of the ship, so as to increase survivability. Then nerf the launch speed on launchers. Also, increase missile speed and agility, so that the DPS of a missile is less conditional.
Then, make HF/capship hybrids of varying weights/sizes, some more HF-ish, some more capship-ish. Also, add more missile types.
Lastly, increase the MF Gunner Class gives to allow MF2 at level 10, MF3 at level 20. It'll incentivize lower level players to switch to Gunner. Then perhaps give Gunner a range and/or Rof and/or DPH boost.
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Blue Dwarf wrote: In space, no one can hear you cha cha cha.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:35 pm |
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Demiser of D
Team:
Main: Demiser of D
Level: 20 Class:
None
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:46 pm Location: Listening to Fire On High, best song ever.
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Re: Gunner
Could you explain what you mean by all damage sources? You mean all damage types? That seems a bit mindless to me.
_________________
JeffL wrote: That's it. I quit!
Battlecruiser23 wrote: Fuck you, Cygnus.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 pm |
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Griffin
Team:
Main: Stabberz
Level: 2153 Class:
Gunner
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:55 am
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Re: Gunner
Demiser of D wrote: Could you explain what you mean by all damage sources? You mean all damage types? That seems a bit mindless to me. Yes, types. I forgot for a second that all sources means things other that being hit by a weapon. Woops.
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Blue Dwarf wrote: In space, no one can hear you cha cha cha.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:48 pm |
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shawn_mccall
Team:
Main: shawn - mccall
Level: 2411 Class:
Fleet Commander
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:53 am
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Re: Gunner
Griffin wrote: Not completely, still missing missile changes, content, and weapon dps.
Make missiles come in packs of 4 (turns regular missiles into missile packs) launches 4 missiles from the sides of the ship, so as to increase survivability. Then nerf the launch speed on launchers. Also, increase missile speed and agility, so that the DPS of a missile is less conditional.
Then, make HF/capship hybrids of varying weights/sizes, some more HF-ish, some more capship-ish. Also, add more missile types.
Lastly, increase the MF Gunner Class gives to allow MF2 at level 10, MF3 at level 20. It'll incentivize lower level players to switch to Gunner. Then perhaps give Gunner a range and/or Rof and/or DPH boost. These posts are the reason Gunner is neglected. The class and skills are fine. We just need Destruction to give enough of a bonus to be worth using, and enough missile types to suffice with everyday use.
So yet again: NO MAJOR OVERHAUL OR EFFORT, just increase destruction, then give us more missiles.
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Neba wrote: BLACK PEOPLE DON'T GET RICE
andezrhode wrote: goett wrote: All oly ships look way to geometrically conservative for my tastes. thats because most graphic designers are squares
goett wrote: Fired bullets taste like candy.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:52 pm |
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Demiser of D
Team:
Main: Demiser of D
Level: 20 Class:
None
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:46 pm Location: Listening to Fire On High, best song ever.
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Re: Gunner
Nah, gunner needs to be overhauled. But no, i cant agree to making their debuff work for all damage types, because that's inane and boring. Makes things too easy. Area effects are also out, because that's too close to doing what a FC does!
_________________
JeffL wrote: That's it. I quit!
Battlecruiser23 wrote: Fuck you, Cygnus.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:56 pm |
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shawn_mccall
Team:
Main: shawn - mccall
Level: 2411 Class:
Fleet Commander
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:53 am
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Re: Gunner
Gunner does not need an overhaul it is already a great class, just a little weak. I also agree that making destruction affect all damage types would suck, as it would remove a lot of the forethought in gearing and fun of the class.
Back to the overhaul crap though. It is totally unnecessary and will turn gunner into the next sniper beef. I do not want that, I like my class how it is. Just give me enough destruction to get into Oly, and enough missiles to be remotely useful with more than 3 damage types.
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Neba wrote: BLACK PEOPLE DON'T GET RICE
andezrhode wrote: goett wrote: All oly ships look way to geometrically conservative for my tastes. thats because most graphic designers are squares
goett wrote: Fired bullets taste like candy.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:01 pm |
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Demiser of D
Team:
Main: Demiser of D
Level: 20 Class:
None
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:46 pm Location: Listening to Fire On High, best song ever.
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Re: Gunner
I HAVE a gunner. At the moment, missiles suck unless you spam them, their DPS sucks, in fact most everything about them sucks. And you have to pay for the missiles to even do it.
It's far from "a great class".
But if you were to fix destruction and fix missile spamming then it would be a lot better. All i'm saying is that missiles should be changed (not exactly a class specific thing), and that destruction should be balanced in a better way. That's all.
Also, there are ways to push your destruction skill a bit further than you might think. Let's leave it at that...
_________________
JeffL wrote: That's it. I quit!
Battlecruiser23 wrote: Fuck you, Cygnus.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:05 pm |
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shawn_mccall
Team:
Main: shawn - mccall
Level: 2411 Class:
Fleet Commander
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:53 am
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Re: Gunner
I have a gunner as well and can use missiles effectively at 1.5k range. Just because you see no other route than spam does not mean there is no other route.
The beauty of just bumping destruction by 10 is that we get a small boost to weapons and missiles(provided we get more missile damage types) to bring us in line with other classes, as well as a good enough incentive for people to allow us on their Oly runs.
_________________
Neba wrote: BLACK PEOPLE DON'T GET RICE
andezrhode wrote: goett wrote: All oly ships look way to geometrically conservative for my tastes. thats because most graphic designers are squares
goett wrote: Fired bullets taste like candy.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:12 pm |
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Demiser of D
Team:
Main: Demiser of D
Level: 20 Class:
None
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:46 pm Location: Listening to Fire On High, best song ever.
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Re: Gunner
Sure, you can use them a 1500 range; then again, you can use licins from about 400-500 range, too. Doesn't mean it works very well.
Just a quick calculation;
at 50 range, with 5 broadsword launchers= .16 Recoil, or a ROF of 6.25. 6.25*5000= 31500 DPS, destruction makes it 37500.
Now, a large AP missile with missile mastery 20 goes 150 speed, meaning it takes 10 seconds to go 1500 distance. That means 5 missiles every 10 seconds, or roughly 2500 DPS. Throw in destruction and you've got about 2750.
You most likely already know all this, but that's where the issue comes in! A mediocre zerker or sniper can put out constant amounts of damage at that range in the area of 25-35k DPS. A gunner can put out...maybe 5000 damage from weapons, and 3000 from missiles, if they're very good?
8000 DPS for a good gunner is, frankly, pathetic.
_________________
JeffL wrote: That's it. I quit!
Battlecruiser23 wrote: Fuck you, Cygnus.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:22 pm |
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shawn_mccall
Team:
Main: shawn - mccall
Level: 2411 Class:
Fleet Commander
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:53 am
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Re: Gunner
Demiser of D wrote: Sure, you can use them a 1500 range; then again, you can use licins from about 400-500 range, too. Doesn't mean it works very well.
Just a quick calculation;
at 50 range, with 5 broadsword launchers= .16 Recoil, or a ROF of 6.25. 6.25*5000= 31500 DPS, destruction makes it 37500.
Now, a large AP missile with missile mastery 20 goes 150 speed, meaning it takes 10 seconds to go 1500 distance. That means 5 missiles every 10 seconds, or roughly 2500 DPS. Throw in destruction and you've got about 2750.
You most likely already know all this, but that's where the issue comes in! A mediocre zerker or sniper can put out constant amounts of damage at that range in the area of 25-35k DPS. A gunner can put out...maybe 5000 damage from weapons, and 3000 from missiles, if they're very good?
8000 DPS for a good gunner is, frankly, pathetic. Missiles can be used for more than just DPS...
_________________
Neba wrote: BLACK PEOPLE DON'T GET RICE
andezrhode wrote: goett wrote: All oly ships look way to geometrically conservative for my tastes. thats because most graphic designers are squares
goett wrote: Fired bullets taste like candy.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:51 pm |
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Demiser of D
Team:
Main: Demiser of D
Level: 20 Class:
None
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:46 pm Location: Listening to Fire On High, best song ever.
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Re: Gunner
You mean for absorbing damage? That's fine, but it's hardly what missiles are meant for...
_________________
JeffL wrote: That's it. I quit!
Battlecruiser23 wrote: Fuck you, Cygnus.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:52 pm |
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SkyTitan
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:12 pm
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Re: Gunner
*wants shawn's opinion on the following*
-MaxNumber of launchers = maxnum of controllable missiles -Sepperate launcher cool down -No more launch speed decrease (effectively replaced with sepperate cool down)
Would this mess with you too badly or is it fairly neutral to long range? Would at least stop missile spam. No missile spam = no balance issues with adding other missiles.
_________________
Gaffateip wrote: I love ss forums. I wonder what percentage of users wear a safety helmet to eat breakfast. DITKA wrote: [s]I'd like some proof that you guys are males[/s]
might be a bad idea nvm
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:59 pm |
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shawn_mccall
Team:
Main: shawn - mccall
Level: 2411 Class:
Fleet Commander
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:53 am
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Re: Gunner
I'm actually a big fan of making launchers non-stackable then dividing all their launch times by 3 to make inbuilt launchers viable.
_________________
Neba wrote: BLACK PEOPLE DON'T GET RICE
andezrhode wrote: goett wrote: All oly ships look way to geometrically conservative for my tastes. thats because most graphic designers are squares
goett wrote: Fired bullets taste like candy.
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:12 pm |
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