Star Sonata :: View topic - Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc

Antilzah wrote:

shawn_mccall wrote:

yugioh124 wrote:

There should be more reaver roaming AI (not grim, the single-fire ones). I'd like to see them as common as picks/forgones, they're well-balanced and a nice bit of variety.

Not well balanced at all imo. I kill them easily on a level 302 sniper that has 12k shields, 700 range, and 40 vis with an Urqa Ka. That's not good for any AI of that level.

1. I believe that alt was created before core skill points were changed.
2. You're an experienced player and you killing stuff easily doesn't really count.
3. Sniper is overpowered.

Battlecruiser23 wrote:

Add to that that using a ship that starts with 75% resist to laser AND has an inbuilt no fail diffuser with an extra 50% to laser is broken if the AI you're poking ONLY uses laser.

Maybe add a backup Heat weapon that does half the DPS at the same range and tracking and ROF as the Reaver Laser?

anilv wrote:

I have often thought that Reavers should have a backup energy torpedo, like Sawtooths.

Cygnus wrote:

I have noticed that drops are very difficult to counter, at least the first time around, and they're so rare that usually you're not carrying the physical weapon you need to kill them.

My gunner can kill them, but that's only because it's a Pax Battle Frigate tweaked to do the maximum possible damage with range, meaning i can blow up all the missiles with my normal weapons. A normal gunner would be fairly screwed, especially since their missiles do like 20k damage each

Weren't they supposed to be a rare thing, anyway?

Cygnus wrote:

Weren't they supposed to be a rare thing, anyway?

anilv wrote:

Why does it surprise you that a certain AI ship is very easy for some classes to kill, but quite challenging for others? Don't beef Drops.

anilv wrote:

Don't beef Drops.

shawn_mccall wrote:

[*]Speed Demon; High RoF and Speed. Can easily kill drop missiles before they reach them even if fired from 400 distance, and can put a lot of distance between the drop and themselves and the drop before they fire the laser.[Personal Experience]

Author:	Battlecruiser23 [ Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
Antilzah wrote: shawn_mccall wrote: yugioh124 wrote: There should be more reaver roaming AI (not grim, the single-fire ones). I'd like to see them as common as picks/forgones, they're well-balanced and a nice bit of variety. Not well balanced at all imo. I kill them easily on a level 302 sniper that has 12k shields, 700 range, and 40 vis with an Urqa Ka. That's not good for any AI of that level. 1. I believe that alt was created before core skill points were changed. 2. You're an experienced player and you killing stuff easily doesn't really count. 3. Sniper is overpowered. Add to that that using a ship that starts with 75% resist to laser AND has an inbuilt no fail diffuser with an extra 50% to laser is broken if the AI you're poking ONLY uses laser. Maybe add a backup Heat weapon that does half the DPS at the same range and tracking and ROF as the Reaver Laser?

Author:	syberian [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
Battlecruiser23 wrote: Add to that that using a ship that starts with 75% resist to laser AND has an inbuilt no fail diffuser with an extra 50% to laser is broken if the AI you're poking ONLY uses laser. Maybe add a backup Heat weapon that does half the DPS at the same range and tracking and ROF as the Reaver Laser? You forgot to add that you can also equip volies on top ^_^

Author:	anilv [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
I have often thought that Reavers should have a backup energy torpedo, like Sawtooths.

Author:	Battlecruiser23 [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
anilv wrote: I have often thought that Reavers should have a backup energy torpedo, like Sawtooths. Radiation Torpedo and we're ok Too many AI use energy and laser. Need more variation.

Author:	anilv [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
Only if it drops and I can use it on SD! Nah, just kidding.

Star Sonata http://www.starsonata.com/forum/

Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc http://www.starsonata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48742	Page 2 of 4

Author:	Splatt [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
I agree with Camsey and Bliz As a level 300ish character BGs are just too tough for me. On a higher level character they are way to resistant for their level and not worth the effort. Regarding vultures, and condors they are always a threat and far too low levelled for their effect. Reavers are tough for most classed (unless you are in a specialised ship or are a sniper. (Snipers are now too good btw) Drops, vultures and condors are totally unbalanced they are far to effective for their level. Drops need a nerf (lose the missiles) and the others need a level boost.

Author:	Cygnus [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
I have noticed that drops are very difficult to counter, at least the first time around, and they're so rare that usually you're not carrying the physical weapon you need to kill them. My gunner can kill them, but that's only because it's a Pax Battle Frigate tweaked to do the maximum possible damage with range, meaning i can blow up all the missiles with my normal weapons. A normal gunner would be fairly screwed, especially since their missiles do like 20k damage each Weren't they supposed to be a rare thing, anyway?

Author:	anilv [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
Cygnus wrote: I have noticed that drops are very difficult to counter, at least the first time around, and they're so rare that usually you're not carrying the physical weapon you need to kill them. My gunner can kill them, but that's only because it's a Pax Battle Frigate tweaked to do the maximum possible damage with range, meaning i can blow up all the missiles with my normal weapons. A normal gunner would be fairly screwed, especially since their missiles do like 20k damage each Weren't they supposed to be a rare thing, anyway? They aren't hard to kill on SD as long as they don't ambush you. That's the real trick, though.

Author:	shawn_mccall [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
Cygnus wrote: I have noticed that drops are very difficult to counter, at least the first time around, and they're so rare that usually you're not carrying the physical weapon you need to kill them. My gunner can kill them, but that's only because it's a Pax Battle Frigate tweaked to do the maximum possible damage with range, meaning i can blow up all the missiles with my normal weapons. A normal gunner would be fairly screwed, especially since their missiles do like 20k damage each Weren't they supposed to be a rare thing, anyway? I have never met any Gunner that has trouble with drops tbh. The range on their missiles and the time it takes for them to spawn new ones makes them nearly useless unless they can kill you in the first volley(which is unlikely considering they are typically launching the missiles outside of their range). Then the Drop itself has pretty crap shields and resists meaning you can typically knock them out before they can ever dump enough potential damage from the missiles to kill even the lowliest of gunners. Massive recoil on their laser also means they can't slow you down long enough or consistently enough to actually make any of the missiles count. Actually. Now that I think about it. Drops need a beef if anything. Perhaps code them to use their HW on their missiles? Their missiles already have low range causing them not to hit then you give them a tractor that further undermines the missiles by pushing the player away. So allow the drop to use the HW to speed them up, or give drops a speed aura for their missiles and switch the HW with a pull tractor. You also don't need Physical to kill the missiles. I drop them with collision code on Excoms. The PBF really isn't the epitome of gunner ships. I can drag just as much DPS out of a freighter or even an LF if I want to. So being in a PBF doesn't give you all that much in advantages over other gunners against Drops. The fact is that drops are just outright weak.

Author:	anilv [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
Why does it surprise you that a certain AI ship is very easy for some classes to kill, but quite challenging for others? Don't beef Drops.

Author:	shawn_mccall [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
anilv wrote: Why does it surprise you that a certain AI ship is very easy for some classes to kill, but quite challenging for others? Don't beef Drops. The weaknesses I listed are universal to all classes not just things gunner gets to take advantage of. However, I guess I can approach this through your terms and still demand a beef. Seer; Drops cannot see them and Seers one shot them.[Personal Experience] Speed Demon; High RoF and Speed. Can easily kill drop missiles before they reach them even if fired from 400 distance, and can put a lot of distance between the drop and themselves and the drop before they fire the laser.[Personal Experience] Monk; Huge shield bank( and most of the time slaves that can slaughter the drop) that maakes drops unlikely to fire at them. The "Not All Monks Use Slaves" argument is invalid as they are helpless to all AI in that case. Yet again [Personal Experience] Engineer; Lol, is there any AaI an Eng can't kill? Didn't think so.[Personal Experience] as well. Berserker; Yay collision code! Every missile dies when they slam into a giant wall of DPS then the Drop runs away in fear.[Personal Experience] damn it's like this personaal experience tag is showing up everywhere, almost like I've played all classes and can make posts taking all of them into account. Sniper; Do I really need to say anything here?[Personal Experience] Gunner; Been through this, but I can add a bit more I suppose. Crapital Shit gunners are bank based even when they do not aug for shields, so much so that your average level 600 Dread without slaves can typically dance with a drop and win decicively. HFs are always based around Speed, Stealth, or DPS. Speed based is fast enoughto avoid missiles long enough to kill them all(I do this in my Zebra against drops), Stealth is low enough vis to remain unseen if you cba or turn the missiles back toward the drop by cloaking to run their life span out(Did this in my Juju and now I do it in my Reaver+), and DPS based can spam literally any weapon above t13 and kill them with collision code(I do this in my Reaver+, and even managed it in a Pax Astro). Obvious [Personal Experience] FC; even more bank based than a Gunner with much more DPS and Gamma Emitters and other fun auras.[Personal Experience] Once again.

Author:	thijs12b [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
anilv wrote: Don't beef Drops. +1 As for some classes being better at killing certain AI (or even having an advantage killing a certain AI.), I don't mind as long as its balanced, heck it would be a feature!

Author:	Battlecruiser23 [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
Drops don't need a beef. What they need is some new and unique AI. I haz three if they would get off their asses and code them in.

Author:	anilv [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Feedback on the new AI levels, swarming, placements, etc
shawn_mccall wrote: [*]Speed Demon; High RoF and Speed. Can easily kill drop missiles before they reach them even if fired from 400 distance, and can put a lot of distance between the drop and themselves and the drop before they fire the laser.[Personal Experience] I like how you count speed as an advantage against Drops... Anyway, I disagree. If a Drop ambushes my Speed Demon (i.e., hits me with its laser before I'm aware of its presence), things can go pretty badly. The missiles are definitely not easy to kill when you aren't moving (lower RoF bonus) and only happen to have an Excomm; that I do know from personal experience. Don't tell me that I should just keep from thrusting; a tractor from the Drop or a stray Forgone will do the trick. Of course, Drops pose no threat to a Speed Demon who is prepared to take them on, but the ambush factor is pretty tough against this class. Most or all AI in perilous space pose less of a threat to SD than Drops, and also happen to have loot tables.

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