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MF Reaver change imminent
http://www.starsonata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=47737		 Page 4 of 8
Author:  anilv [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
I'd like to make a constructive remark. Most perilous space AI can outrange an average Speed Demon with at least one of their weapons, even if they have more powerful ones with shorter range (also assuming the Speed Demon is using a standard DG weapon of no more than ~450 base range). This isn't an issue by itself since it's possible to fly in a pattern that keeps them from using their long range, possibly instant-hit weapons.

However, all Reaver weapons are instant-hit, which means that a beef of MF Reaver range will make them significantly harder to do on Speed Demon, especially if this is accompanied by a damage beef. Regular Reavers already outrange my Excomm-using AWC; that's not a problem for me because I drop them so fast. However, MF Reaver shield banks are large enough that I would find myself hurting to an unacceptable degree after clearing a level of them, should they be given the range similar to regular Reavers. And not once would I have had the option to evade damage, as I can do at least to some degree against every other perilous AI.

Consider also that my setup puts out as much Excomm DPS over 30 seconds as probably any other Speed Demon in this game, which is twice or thrice what an average Speed Demon Panther/DS can do. The untested change to torpedo code has already made AI like Zebras and Platties more difficult for non-rangey SD, and this MF Reaver change is just going to put yet another type of AI on my "cba-list." Seriously, when's the last time someone complained that SD was overpowered? Two years ago? When's the last time someone complained Sniper was overpowered? Yesterday? Why make changes to penalize SD close-combat and make it harder to hit distant targets with torpedos? I don't think it's too much to ask for the devs to consult the experts, you know those players who have actually been grinding in this game for years, how they feel about fundamental changes to game mechanics. Sure, you guys have put your time in as well, but it's easy to get a bit out of touch once you get into the world of development.
Author:  Demiser of D [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
sabre198 wrote:
u better be putting a 1.25 xp modifier on shit like 2k forgies then. cos now theres zilch to level off, consistently anyway.




I actually agree with this. If we're balancing AI for XP based on the amount of time it takes to kill them, then a lot of AI need some major XP boosts. MF forgies for one...BG's deserve a pretty major boost too.
Author:  ELITE [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
Imo BGs should be 1k, the DG BGs 1.2k, and Bigger Greens 1.7 with MFs being 2k.

I run from MF bigger greens way more often then I run from MF reavers or MF picks.
Author:  Chaosking3 [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
I think there is a general consensus here that Reavers are to easy for the amount of experience they provide, no one is arguing against that. What is being argued against is simply taking a current long term AI and making it harder (with possibly less reward).

I think doing something as simple as lowering MF Reaver levels to say 1500~ with no stat change and than introducing new AI in the 2400~ range would pretty much solve the current issues. MF Reavers would no longer be an easy source to get to 2k on but lower level players would not be stopped cold in their grind. At the same time high end players who lost the Reaver farming would now at least have an opportunity to fight AI that offer decent experience, even if they are difficult!

With t21 out for awhile now I think it would be acceptable to start seeing t21 AI DGs.
Author:  Demiser of D [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
Chaosking3 wrote:
I think there is a general consensus here that Reavers are to easy for the amount of experience they provide, no one is arguing against that. What is being argued against is simply taking a current long term AI and making it harder (with possibly less reward).

I think doing something as simple as lowering MF Reaver levels to say 1500~ with no stat change and than introducing new AI in the 2400~ range would pretty much solve the current issues. MF Reavers would no longer be an easy source to get to 2k on but lower level players would not be stopped cold in their grind. At the same time high end players who lost the Reaver farming would now at least have an opportunity to fight AI that offer decent experience, even if they are difficult!

With t21 out for awhile now I think it would be acceptable to start seeing t21 AI DGs.



I agree with this completely, it perfectly exemplifies what i would have liked to have said had i been able to do so.

/thread
Author:  Zekk [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
After examining the maths, I find that using an XP modifier only makes sense if you want to make killing a certain AI viable over a wider level range. In turn, this only makes sense if you're unwilling or unable to introduce new content to fill in the gap created by decreasing the level on MF reavers. Finally, with the beefs you're suggesting decreasing the level or nerfing the XP seems unnecessary EXCEPT that MF reavers still will have paper thin shields...

ohey I've got a great idea! give them better shields! -_-
derp derp derp...
Author:  Demiser of D [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
Then they're boring. Just do this:
Chaosking3 wrote:

I think doing something as simple as lowering MF Reaver levels to say 1500~ with no stat change and than introducing new AI in the 2400~ range would pretty much solve the current issues. MF Reavers would no longer be an easy source to get to 2k on but lower level players would not be stopped cold in their grind.
Author:  2088501 [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
The Lost One wrote:
Demiser of D wrote:
Lol. If you're going to do this, i sure hope you add some AI that isn't so hard to kill, cause atm MF reavers are about the only leveling option for noobs from level 1100-2000. Heck, my pretty decent rhino engineer can hardly take down a full level of them.

Unless you intend for people to need to level in squads...which isn't a terrible idea, just hard to pull together. Ofc, if you have a shm alt it's pretty much easy to do anything...


There are plenty of other easy AI to kill. Omega Platforms, Wattages, Prog Rosies, are all easy if done right.

And if you really struggle with taking down a full level of MFRs on your Engineer I wouldn't call it "pretty decent". I would call it a total failure really.

I think this is a fair change that should have happened ages ago.


/Completely Disagree

The game should be a staircase of difficulty based on your level, meaning if you have a 1b setup things should be possible to kill, a 10b setup things should be easy to kill, and a 50b setup you should be able to rape everything without breaking a sweat.

Not everyone has a perfect setup, not everyone wants the same setup, and not everyone has the money for the same perfect setup, there should be room for error and still possible to have fun.
Author:  2088501 [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
Demiser of D wrote:
sabre198 wrote:
u better be putting a 1.25 xp modifier on shit like 2k forgies then. cos now theres zilch to level off, consistently anyway.




I actually agree with this. If we're balancing AI for XP based on the amount of time it takes to kill them, then a lot of AI need some major XP boosts. MF forgies for one...BG's deserve a pretty major boost too.


/I agree

AI difficulty should increase their level thus giving more experience.
Author:  zhuang281 [ Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
I agree that MF reavers are underpowered. I also agree that there are many AI that higher levels can get some EXP off. However, no other ai comes into mind (ie wattages, platforms) which appears level after level in dgs. This would mean levelling would become exponentially harder and more frustrating :(
Author:  ELITE [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
Make DGs more randomized! No more powerleveling! :O
Author:  sabre198 [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
how about you devs introduce the 2.4k ai BEFORE u screw with reavers, cos once you change the reavers you will just simply ignore all the threads about it, like normal.
Author:  thijs12b [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
But buzz, that would make sense...
Author:  Chaosking3 [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
Chaosking3 wrote:
I think there is a general consensus here that Reavers are to easy for the amount of experience they provide, no one is arguing against that. What is being argued against is simply taking a current long term AI and making it harder (with possibly less reward).

I think doing something as simple as lowering MF Reaver levels to say 1500~ with no stat change and than introducing new AI in the 2400~ range would pretty much solve the current issues. MF Reavers would no longer be an easy source to get to 2k on but lower level players would not be stopped cold in their grind. At the same time high end players who lost the Reaver farming would now at least have an opportunity to fight AI that offer decent experience, even if they are difficult!

With t21 out for awhile now I think it would be acceptable to start seeing t21 AI DGs.


I don't want to toot my own horn but I really feel that this is a good suggestion.
Author:  playerboy345 [ Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: MF Reaver change imminent
sabre198 wrote:
how about you devs introduce the 2.4k ai BEFORE u screw with reavers, cos once you change the reavers you will just simply ignore all the threads about it, like normal.

^
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