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Some proposed beefs to Snipers
http://www.starsonata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=35960		 Page 13 of 21
Author:  Nabaco [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
Implode!
Sniper's Pomegranate...or hoecer you spell it
Wave!
Author:  villiroth [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
Railgun, nuff said.
Author:  Katherine [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
The Long Arm of the Law


(red and blue laser plz)
Author:  LethalLoki [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
Katherine wrote:
The Long Arm of the Law


(red and blue laser plz)


I prefer

The long [Explative Deleted] of the law
Description: "You DONT want to get slapped by this"
Author:  Sybir [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
villiroth wrote:
Railgun, nuff said.

Nailgun! too
Author:  JeffL [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
I've uploaded the +physical damage and the other changes to the snipers skill to test. You can use the test client in the smooth energy thread, but the skill descriptions won't be up to date until I make a new test client.

(p.s. Why does the forum now have super-slow yellow snow?)
Author:  Battlecruiser23 [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
Atomic Annie
Long Tom
Howitzer
Naval Rifle
The Eighty-Eight

P.S. Julian is trying to make a meteor fly across the forum, and it's not working too well.
Author:  Demiser of D [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
I see you didn't take what i said into consideration. Sniper range has now been nerfed, congratz.
Author:  pip8786 [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
Demiser of D wrote:
I see you didn't take what i said into consideration. Sniper range has now been nerfed, congratz.


No comments about all the other changes?
Author:  Katherine [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
LAZOR!

descript: IMA FIRING MAH LAZOR!!! BLAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

graphic must be a very thick blue laser, about this color =============


do it ^
Author:  The Voomy One [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
Overall it's still a beef to sniper, you are able to move while still doing good damage. I've only done a quick test myself but I liked it.
Author:  Demiser of D [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
With high leveled sniper, range is pretty much everything. If you're trying to beef a class, i dont see why you cannot take the time to make it give a total of 240% range instead of 220%.

With my Zebra spitter, Before, i got somewhere around 2967 range.

Now, i have 2719 range, and when every single point of range counts, thats a pretty significant nerf...

Think of it this way; a SD can go 700 distance a second, if they're augged right. That means that, with 3000 range(which is idealbtw, chances are you're not going to be using a zspitter on a LF in any case), They will take aproximately 4 seconds to get to you, compared to ~4.2 seconds. Doesn't seem like such a big difference, but that is based on the assumption that sniper is capable of doing high DPS in that time. Jeff has said that sniper is supposed to be a sort of continuous DPS class, compared to SD's burst DPS, ending up with the same long term DPS. But how are you supposed to maintain your DPS when the SD will be there any second? The answer is, you really cannot. You have to choose exactly when to ditch and move off to a different position to begin again, and those extra .2 seconds can mean the difference between surviving or not surviving.

Think of it this way;

You start firing
say, a second later, the SD sees you.
From this point, you probably have about 4 seconds until the SD actually reaches you, and actually more like 3 seconds until they are within firing range. Weapon cooldown is about a second(1-1.5 seconds), and engine cooldown is perhaps a second(1-1.5seconds)

That means that you get about 2 seconds of firing before you MUST run, or you WILL die. In that time, i could maybe do about 3000 damage, or 3300 with that extra .2 seconds. IF i'm lucky, and all my shots connect, IF I'm using the right damage type(Which, btw, i'm not, mining fails vs LF's), and IF i dont bail out too soon. Now, the average SD has perhaps 30k shields, which means in one burst, you can take them down by about 1/10th of their bank...and then the sniper must move out to full range to repeat the process, which, moving at about 100 speed(the maximum for most snipers), would take about 30 seconds. Assuming the SD is using ANY good shield whatsoever, they will have actually fully regened by that point...

In the end, i am curious as to the point in all of this. Sniper simply CANNOT pvp SD's and win, it is impossible with a capable SD. Sure, a competant sniper can kill and incompenent SD, but any class, playing well, can defeat another class playing badly. Sniper is a long term DPS class playing in a field of burst DPS, and in that battlefield, it is stuck, unable to do what it is supposed to do best.

I got mildly off topic, but as you can see, an extra 200 range is equivalent to a 10% damage increase. You give us 20% more damage with phyiscal damage(Which is so short ranged it can NEVER hit a SD, not to mention slow and extremely huge), then you nerf all other damage by about 10% because of this, also, btw, making physical damage even HARDER to use.

I have come to the conclusion, in retrospect that jeff, subconciously or otherwise, hates snipers. He wants us to use physical weapons, but he gives us only a paltry 20% damage boost, while giving catapults 257 range, MAXIMUM. He makes catas the most effecient weapon, meant to be used by the most effecient class, making it so they can pretty much ALLWAYS power them, never reaching their full damage potential. And then, just to taunt us, he gives us a weapon that actually is decent(The Pulsius Sharpshooter), that has better damage than my 5 bil credit seige cata, 700 range, 1.3 DPE...and gives it tracking so crappy that it literally cannot hit a zebra. On my sniper with 3 tracking augs. Everywhere a sniper turns, they are fenced in, with no recourse.

It has gone so far, that on my team people are just having me come along on uber runs just because i'm bored, not because i actually help at all. I went along on a lion run the other day, warped in, died, and by the time i had regened, lion was dead. That is about the extent of what i do in any uber run...heck, with my 50 bil+ in items, weapons, EVERYTHING that i can obtain to become better, i cannot compare to a SD in a vulture on a run.

I am getting pissed off about this, to the point that i am losing my sense of fun in leveling my sniper. It was my favorite class for a while, but in the face of so many unsurmountable challenges faced in simply attempting to become decent, i am starting to lose hope.


*Notes: The damage i mentioned was what i can roughly do with my bule abadi befouler to a panther. However, the befouler has only around 2000 range in the best of circumstances, which means that doesn't work at all, either.
Author:  Demiser of D [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
In addition, i would love to test the new stuff, and i would, if it weren't for the fact that sharky warped me into perilous space, with no route back to sol, in my pod. Thanks, sharky.
Author:  Thyra [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
Demiser of D wrote:
Wall Of Text I Had to Read.


while i agree with you in essence you miss one fatal fact. No Matter the SD they will come to you the same way. A Straight Line. therefore high dpshot weapons work best against a SD. both a stygian fist or a V2 can more than likely take down the SD before he reaches you. You take your point as a con however i consider it a pro as i use this very failing among SD's to t\ake them out. Where this doesnt work however is after the first kill. As the SD is now wary of your attacks and he/she will now circle in for the kill. it is at this time i completely endorse your ideas. I have always considered Sniper as a Surprise DPS class. a class that works like a Seer on the element of Surprise and once that is broken they must hide or die.
Author:  Demiser of D [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some proposed beefs to Snipers
That is true, you might be able to get in one kill, simply by surprising them, but i have found that with a dark fist, generally, they will get hit with one, or perhaps 2 shots, at which point they will begin circling their way in, which will make you miss one way or another, depleting ALL your DPS.

I actually way considering that fact, sort of, since if a SD knows they're being shot at by a sniper, they can dodge all the sniper's shots without hardly thinking about it. In my calculations, they were coming straight towards you.
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