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| Gunner http://www.starsonata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47172 |
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| Author: | shawn_mccall [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
SkyTitan is right though Church. The day Gunner is forced into using a specific set of weapons or gear to get a benefit that should come from skills is the day that myself, and probably many others, go to Lyceum and reset to zerker or sniper. At the moment, as a gunner, I have the gear to drop myself into an ingame zerker or sniper overnight since most of the gear we use is utilized by the 2 primary DPS classes. I stick with gunner, as others probably do, because I enjoy how unique and verstile it is in SS so I'm willing to put up with constant farces from the devs constantly minimizing our utility or re-assigning our class roles because a few seers cried. The moment you try and lock gunners into a corner though you will destroy the class by taking the few people that appreciate it as is and turning all their hard work and setups into a bad joke. |
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| Author: | Masterful [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
SkyTitan wrote: Battlecruiser23 wrote: Gunner is the debuff class. Why not give them debuff weapons that not only provide said debuff, but hit hard enough to be worth as dps weapons? Lower the destruction power as needed. Class locked, weapon based, effects for the LOSS. For debuffs at least. For distributing bonuses, eh, go for it. Gunner is about hit hard. "Further blows more devastating" or something like that. They shouldn't be limited to what weapons they use and they shouldn't loose their destruction benefit. Make Destruction stack, and each stack lasts for 3 seconds. Up to 5 stacks at a time. More stacks on a target, more energy needed for gunner to fire. Hard cap at 100%? |
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| Author: | Blue Dwarf [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
I've fully read this thread, and I recently came up with some ideas for Gunners. However Shawn, the Seer Virus Lasers are not for debuffing enemies, they are for buffing your allies at a cost. My personally ideas for Gunner would be quite a re-jiggling to the class. Currently the issues I see are: Missile Launchers can be stacked Ergo missiles can be spammed Most DPS comes from missiles Most Gunners use, or have a HF ship (probably most) Missiles are limited to 4 damage types The debuff is generally weak It's the only class without capship locked auras It's the class with the least amount of DPS now (I reckon) It's the class with the least amount of class only gear, missions etc My personal ideas for Gunner as I said would be quite the re-jiggle. But I think Gunner would sit nicely as an artillery enemy-debuffing class. Using some newly made capital ships which are more of a HF/Capship hybrid in design, but leaning more towards Capship, using torpedo class weapons. Although, these are my ideas, however I shall bring this up some point soon... (Like when we aren't worrying about beta) |
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| Author: | Griffin [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
Is there a "bin" of deleted topics? If so, you should find "Gunner Class Overhaul" and read it. |
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| Author: | syberian [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
I've always imagined that gunner's hits are so powerful that they crush target's armor, therefore they slowly make it more and more fragile. Stackable debuff that would depends on damage and target's shield bank would be the best imo. Damage/Target's shield Bank % of the debuff would work well I think. Small targets would get large debuffs while bases and uber would get really small debuffs BUT it would stack and significantly rise group's dps over period of time. |
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| Author: | ELITE [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
A gradual debuff to the target's resists in conjunction with Sniper Analysis would destroy everything so quickly.... |
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| Author: | shawn_mccall [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
No reason get too intricate here really, just boost destruction(or damage from class skills in general), then give us more missiles. The class is already unique and fun, no need to rebuild it, just give iit some more power to bring it in line. |
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| Author: | Battlecruiser23 [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
I love the way that dev thinks. |
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| Author: | Bluejayek [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
One thing that really should exist is + missile ops and + fighter ops stats on augs. It doesn't seem to make sense that both FC and gunner have major parts of there class be unaffected by augs. I'm more or less with shawn that gunner is nice as is, just a bit under-powered. However, I definitely agree that stacking missile launchers needs to be removed. The existing launchers/missiles should then be re-balanced to reflect this. Capping the # of launchers per ship was always just a band-aid in my opinion. This would allow differing launchers to be introduced that perhaps give special stats to missiles such as missile speed, maneuverability, or extra damage. As you would only need one instead of 3 or 4, it would be practical to use these. It would also fix the problem of inbuilt launchers being out of line with stacked normal launchers. |
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| Author: | SkyTitan [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
Battlecruiser23 wrote: I love the way that dev thinks. Scary. :p The Dev is right on observed issues. As far as gear goes... well, classes are about making you better at a particular aspect of the game, your prefered playing style, if you will. I don't really see any need for class locked gear except for things supposed powered by the seer itself or for things that would unbalance the game. Basicly, give everyone the tricks of the trade, a specific class just gets the best of it. Capship locked auras? Bah! Gunner is the guy that fires the big guns, not flys em. (you know what I mean) Auras would be cool and all but... The only use I could think of for it would be implementing cruise missiles(long range, thus no spamming) and having a speed boost aura for those missiles. Missile spam, well, that is unbalanced but argueably fun. I would suggest multiple launch tubes makes for multiple missile firings instead of a firing speed bonus. Not that that solves much but, it would open the way for launcher specific firing stats. Same thing would be cool with fighter bays, though understandably frustrating. Second option. Move firing speed to multiple tubes as before, with each tube having a cool down time and firing one at a time. Maximum number of launch tubes: max number of controllable missiles. |
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| Author: | Griffin [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
^or just make missiles launch multiple missiles at a time, perhaps from different areas of the ship. Then, increase the launching time on launchers. No more spamming hotkeys. |
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| Author: | Demiser of D [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
I cant say that I agree with making gunners use torpedo type weapons. Many classes already use torpedoes and thoraxes, I dont think it's a good idea to encourage them even more. If, on the other hand, you were talking about some new type of missile, then i'm all for it. I strongly believe that in the end gunners should predominantly be the missile class. |
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| Author: | shawn_mccall [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
Oh, to whoever the ruhtard is that tried to say seer got nothing remotely like destruction. Destruction does not actually debuff at all. It increases outgoing DPS of everyone using the same damage type. If we really "debuffed" resistances I would have a Fuzz slave right now. The only affect a gunner has on it's target is the pretty circles it puts around them, and the damage they do. The actual benefit from destruction is actually a hard +20% DPH to all players using similar damage types on the same target. So yeah, seer now boosts DPS, Resists, and other shizzle from what I hear. Without the draawback of forcing every DPSer in the squad to use the same weapons. |
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| Author: | Griffin [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
Missiles suck at the moment. 5 Broadswords with large AP's or RP Plasma's does less damage than a Berserker, not to mention the fact that Gunners have to be within 100 distance but more than 50, their DPS goes up considerably when the target has a ship size that's 51 distance or more from its center, missiles can be shot down, and their slow and have low agility. Then, couple the lower, conditional DPS with the fact that they have less tanking ability than a Berserker or FC because their 2 aug slots are usually devoted to offensive augs, rather than defensive as an FC has, and they are shield bank based, rather than resists, so they don't make as good ShM partners. They also are less efficient at supporting a squad than a Fleet Commander, seeing as how they give +20% damage to a SINGLE TARGET with a SINGLE DAMAGE TYPE. So... Fix the class (including the missile system) before giving Gunners more missiles. |
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| Author: | shawn_mccall [ Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
Drop the FC aura to 25%. Beef destruction to 30%. Problem solved, and FCs no longer give obscene bonuses for 0 effort + pocket change. |
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