anilv wrote:
Transference missiles
jk
jk
That would be epicly broken and fun.
| Star Sonata http://www.starsonata.com/forum/ |
|
| Gunner http://www.starsonata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47172 |
Page 1 of 9 |
| Author: | shawn_mccall [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Gunner |
Church's idea(a damn good one btw): Battlecruiser23 wrote: My take on Gunner, after interviewing shawn_mccall, Masterful, and Laptop Boy. Quote: *Note, all items can be balanced as needed. Part 1: Missiles. -All missiles changed to use a Kinetic Missile as a base. Means the max damage comes from going fast. Spammers deprived of ability to deal high spamming damage. Part 2: Damage. Damage all across the board is increased vastly. A Gunner would do in the range of 75%-80% the damage of a Zerk. With missiles, said gunner can pull 100% the damage of a zerk. The issue, is that while a gunner could do this kind of damage, the gunner can only do this damage in a capital ship. The Gunner also must sit at a range to gain maximum punch from their Kinetic missile base. Part 3: "Aggressive" Capital Ships. A hybrid of a Heavy Fighter and a Capital. Basically, a Heavy Fighter tagged as a Capital Ship. These "Hybrids" can take the models/graphics already in game from a few Heavy Fighters. Texture/Size is different. Personally, the size should be bigger than current HF's like rosy/zebra/wave, yet smaller than a dread/PBF/BS Class locked Ships/BP loot can be added as needed, but a T13, T16, T19, T20, and T21 types would exist. Dreads would be seen as Fleet Focus(includes FC) ships. Part 4: Debuffs. Gunners would have access to Gunner-locked Aura Gens. These do not provide a field, merely take the slot. What they do is change the gunner's debuff from the default destruction to one of a various other kinds of debuffs. Unequipping any equipped gunner aura resets debuff back to default destruction. Increase destruction to 30%(FC will still give more so don't even try and tell me it's broken, for you assholes out there), and give me more damage types on missiles already. Seriously, gunner is, and has been, the most neglected class in SS since its inception. Its about time I can at least pretend I'm useful on a run... |
|
| Author: | Griffin [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
Admins deleted by ~10 page long topic about Gunner. It changed missile dps dominating Gunner DPS to weapon DPS. Most everyone loved it. I bumped it ONCE and someone decided to be an ass and ruin my day. |
|
| Author: | shawn_mccall [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
I had a really long one as well, but it mostly revolved around ships. Reaver+ is so epic that I can no longer justify asking for a better gunner geared ship though. At this point the faults in the class lie solely within the skills themselves. We have destruction to boost missile damage and so few(and irrelevant) damage types on our missiles it is laughable(what? SURG, MINING, HEAT, PHYS tell me how those go in Oly when the majority of players are using laser). Then we have FC auras from AI bases that rofl stomp destruction in terms of effectiveness. Oh, and now we're re-assigning gunners class roles to seers, fun! Now give me more destruction and missile types. That's all we need, beyond that its sink or swim for us. Don't restructure the class or skills just add 5% more destruction to each of my weapons, and allow me the unrestrained usage of more than three damage types... |
|
| Author: | anilv [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
Transference missiles jk |
|
| Author: | shawn_mccall [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
anilv wrote: Transference missiles jk That would be epicly broken and fun. |
|
| Author: | SkyTitan [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
shawn_mccall wrote: anilv wrote: Transference missiles jk That would be epicly broken and fun. Oh GAWD! Don't let it hit me! |
|
| Author: | s_m_w [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
I tend to agree that Gunner needs a little work, but I'm hesitant to agree with just making destruction stronger. Reason one is that it stacks very nicely (FC damage aura is 36%, Gunner destruction is 20%, results in 63.2% damage for everyone), reason two is that each weapon a Gunner fires gives X% destruction*. You can (more or less..) easily get a Gunner to fire 5 weapons, so that's a +50% damage bonus that stacks with almost everything. Beef destruction to 15% per weapon as you suggested and you get +75% (!) damage. Add the FC aura to that and you get +138% (!!) damage for everyone forever. * I'm 90% sure that's how it works. Correct me if I'm wrong |
|
| Author: | Demiser of D [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
I agree that destruction is underpowered, but i also think that if gunner were given better missile delivery systems, then they would actually have a reason to come along on runs other than just to debuff their targets. Being a debuff is BORING. No class should be boring. FC is getting a crapload of help with that with the new slave controls with C2, so gunner will then be the only BORING class, as well! Gunner needs a'fixin, in a BROAD amount of ways. Sadly, my topic on gunner got deleted, as well. Also, SMW, if that is the case then it seems somewhat silly to me...throw on cerb augs and get massive beefs. I mean, i wanted to try it, but it seems silly that it would work that way... Honestly, the destruction bonus should not have anything to do with number of weapons, it should have to do with the amount of damage the gunner is putting out. The way it is, it's like saying "If i shoot a tank with a .22, then if i shoot it with a shotgun it will blow up because the .22 is weakening the armor!" If you shoot a tank with an anti tank round it weakens the armor. Or makes it blow up. But any class can do that. If you made the debuff somehow be based on how much damage the gunner is doing through ANY means(including missiles!), it would make a lot more sense and hopefully be more balanced, imo. |
|
| Author: | s_m_w [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
Demiser of D wrote: If you made the debuff somehow be based on how much damage the gunner is doing through ANY means, it would make a lot more sense and hopefully be more balanced, imo. The idea sounds nice, but it would be a significant nerf to low level gunners. |
|
| Author: | Demiser of D [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
You would, of course, have to code it in a way that makes it equal at all levels. Brainstorming as we speak. Of course, you have to remember that lower levels don't have many levels of destruction as it is, so it might actually be less noticeable than you think. |
|
| Author: | shawn_mccall [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
Hard code it to max at 30%? At the moment the only way you could make a decent gunner MFing 3 or more weapons is by using a Cerb aug. Most gunners though can't even get into Oly. In fact a few days ago I decided to try, now I've seen SDs and even seers find Oly runs via all chat. So, I assumed this would be the best way, I said "Gunner looking for Oly run." and got 4 "lols" back immediately and then others tried to explain to me exactly how useless I was. You see, you say Destruction stacks nicely with FC auras, but in reality it does not because it takes 4-5 DPS classes all using the same damage type at all times to make 1 gunner = 1 zerker, whereas it takes 3 DPS classes using different damage types to make 1 FC > 1 zerker. FC really doesn't help get gunners on runs because the aura is all inclusive, and stronger. While gunner gives a much smaller bonus, with much more stipulations. Where does that make sense. I have an idea. Since FC auras are all inclusive and don't require any pre-coordination to utilize fully, and thus are stupid simple and effortless to use, let's switch the bonuses give Destruction 36% and the cheap ass aura with no needed effort give 20%. Meh, I'm all rage-y at the moment, sorry about that. Thank you very much for the response though. |
|
| Author: | Demiser of D [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
Actually, I've seen a good number of SP runs go in with gunners. As far as I know, they put them to good use, even.  But you're right, and it's not just Oly, its the class in general! @s_m_w; The more I think about it, the more i feel that the destruction bonus has to be based on a % damage done to the enemy. The trouble with this comes in when you remember than lower levels will be attacking AI that generally go down in at most a few minutes, while higher levels will be attacking AI and Ubers that have millions of shields. I'm not exactly a math person, but it would seem that it should be some sort of ratio between percent of their max health done as damage over one second, modified by the size of their shields. In that way, it would modify the ratio to get a higher debuff bonus the higher shields an enemy has, but not fully compensating for the shield size, hopefully balancing to end up with a globally lower debuff on enemies with higher shields. Get what I'm aiming for, here, at all? Maybe this is too jumbled, still. |
|
| Author: | shawn_mccall [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
I like the gist of the idea Cyg, but gunner really isn't great as a DPH class meaning we would probably be inadvertently nerfing destruction again by requiring people to leave RoF, and DPS, augging behind in favor of DPH to maximize destruction which would lower RoF to a point that you can't really keep destruction up at all times. Vicious cycle. |
|
| Author: | Demiser of D [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
That's why i want it to be averaged out damage rather than point damage! That way, you can do DPS however you like and still be useful.Also, you have to remember that a gunner can do far more DPS with missiles than without. If this code were to go in, then a gunner would probably need to bring missiles with them to do their full debuff, but hopefully that full debuff would also be higher than it is currently, at the expense of using missiles. |
|
| Author: | s_m_w [ Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gunner |
I did a quick test and it turns out that I was wrong, destruction is hard capped at 2 weapons (20%) right now. |
|
| Page 1 of 9 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|