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Post Re: An interesting topic.
Dark Brotherhood wrote:
I don't see how it benefited me much. I have always been eager to do any newly released content, and I actually didn't level any alts from 1000 to 2000 in Hermes so I could benefit from that. The only benefit I get is that I am trying to put out a wake-up call for Jeff who obviously still is sitting in his little cave somewhere and eating skittles as if there were no concerns in his game.


Skittles ftw.

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:03 am
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
zhuang281 wrote:
"The second misuse of power is something I have yet to see Jeff make a comment on. This goes to involving the player called FracOMac, who has powers which were misused on his developer account named The SI. During the Hermes leveling bug, many people abused the bug. Some made it to the top player list, where FracOMac's player character also is positioned. From several conversations with him in game he has made it clear that he wants to be one of the highest leveled people in the game one day."

I disagree with this one in quite an extreme way. In this, you are making a major assumption that Frac has alterior motives. These motives being that he wants to be a top player and thus only reverted the levels of those in direct competition with him.

I'm not sure how to put this other then the assumption is both stupid and without evidence. You pull out that fact that Frac wants to be a top player and use this as his motive for the reverting of levels. I can think of multiple reasons for Frac using his method. An example of which is to simply save time instead of trawling through logs for every player who gains more then 1 level in Hermes.

I also stated I wanted to be a top player. While your at it, why don't you accuse me of every single misfortune that has occured to any other player?


Tombustion wrote:
Since the admins recently have been bragging about how many new people are joining, Jeff should have enough money to hire real admins / devs by now, instead of relying on volunteers. One day he's gonna hire someone who will screw over the entire game.


Programmers in australia make an average of $74-100,000 a year. This comes down to $7500 a month. We have at least 10+ admins, so multiply that by 10 giving $75000. This would mean that the game needs to have made an extra $75000 per month from the transition between C1-->C2 to have the funds to pay for proper replacement admins. This suggests at least an extra 7500 subs. Admins have said that players have increased, but at no point did I see admins state that the increase was by 7500 paying members. Next time combustion, don't pull crap out of your ass.

And finally addressing Thermal again. Which admin was Shaft?


What else is there to say when Frac has actually told me person to person that he wants to be the highest leveled player in game himself, and the Admins then together only choose to revert the levels of those who made it to the leader board. The Admins being (assuming) Jeff, Bageese and Frac. One guy who still hasn't made a single approach, and two people who live together. If anything, I'll just assume that the Admins normally means to treat every person that abuses a bug equally. This was not the case, and there isn't any way to defend that.

And if a rollback was the only way, then that should have been done when Bageese found out about it, even tho she says a 2 weeks rollback would be the case. Which I doubt since she found out about the bug through the tickets way faster. Then later on a compensation should be in place for it taking a week to even get the attention of this games leadership. It took a week to get Bageese to reply to my ticket again. Who knows, maybe Jeff will respond some time within the next week?

And Shaft was Shaft. Developer.


Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:20 am
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
Oh damn you finally got another reply.


Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:33 am
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
Couple things...

My exp tithe levels were all removed. So any argument about anyone keeping tithe levels is horseshit. Though I can easily see my being looked at very early in the process in determining who to revert based on my flag and past with some teams/admins. I personally don't care, but don't make it seem like the exp tithe levels are ok and were left on everyone's chars...they weren't.

Second. I can't believe they have left this up this long.

Third. Shit dude, this has gone on for as long as I've played this game. Its never going to change unless there is a dev team that does not play, which will never happen. Don't get bent out of shape over this kind of stuff. Just rest assured in the fact that you worked hard and played the game in stead of having it handed to you like some people who think their hot shit when they ace the test with the answer key next to them...

also, I think you are totally right in assuming that Jeff doesnt care. For the life of me, I can't figure out what he does with his day. He has said that this is his only job/source of income and that nothing else takes up his time. This blows me away with how long it takes for shit to get done and the long periods between improvements. And then when they happen, it sure as shit seems like Jey is doing it all.

I would love to know, just for curiosity sake, what jeff does all day. It would seem advantageous to him that SS be successful. and If my job was creating and cultivating a product that hasn't quite made it to the big time, I would bust my ass 12-16 hours a day to get it to where it should be. I could be way off, but it doesn't seem like thats whats happening.


SBP people, stop it, just stop it. all this banter about "you dont have proof" blah blah blah. You guys just look silly when you come on here and defend your team against accusations of being the admin team. I mean shit, the fact that Shaft actually got his powers taken away is kind of a big deal. That rarely happens.


I will genuinely be surprised if all this doesn't get deleted soon.


tl;dr this has been going on for the entire 7 years ive played, never going to stop. SBP stop asking for proof, makes you look desperate. I'm surprised this whole thing hasn't been deleted yet.

-ERMAN

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:40 am
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
I'm not doing it all, far from it, the reason it looks like I'm the one doing everything is because I'm the one handling the patches, but not everything in the patch / beta client are from me. Off course a decent chunk is, I'm full time programmer after all.


As far as Jeff is concerned, he do a bit of coding, lots of management, some marketing and bit of support and most likely some other stuff too


For the argument that you want devs that don't play.... you don't really want that :P, devs that play mean devs that share the bug/missing features affecting you, that chat with the players and generally enjoy the game.

Think about all the new features that annoyed you most, chances are those came from one of the dev that doesn't play (/me stare at Jeff) now imagine if all the dev's didn't play ! :?

Yes there have been a few cases now and then of power abuse. Depending on the level they are handled with anything between a serious warning to the dev in question (very minor issue like leaking that something is coming) to a complete ban of all his accounts (those are much rarer since they imply they had admin powers, but it happened in the past).

Its the price to pay for being too close to the playerbase.

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:10 am
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
Dark Brotherhood wrote:
Quote:
What else is there to say when Frac has actually told me person to person that he wants to be the highest leveled player in game himself, and the Admins then together only choose to revert the levels of those who made it to the leader board. The Admins being (assuming) Jeff, Bageese and Frac. One guy who still hasn't made a single approach, and two people who live together. If anything, I'll just assume that the Admins normally means to treat every person that abuses a bug equally. This was not the case, and there isn't any way to defend that.


You again connect A) Frac saying he wishes to be the highest level player--With-- B) The targets of level reverting.

You are again suggesting Frac only removed those that were a direct challenge to him. You are making this connection without proof and this is the point I am disputing.


Addressing Erman: The fact that we were "given" stats by admins (Or so people suggest), didn't stop your team from attempting then succeeding to obtain our stats sheet and using it for your own gain did it? (I have quotes from a team member of yours admitting this) It also did not stop you from obtaining access to SP team forums by god knows what method to do god knows what. (Another team member of yours also admitted this.)

Proof is what makes the world go round and makes everyone happy. Proof is used in courts of law to indict someone. Lets go for a more recent example: I only accused ShadowBlade of being FD after aquiring proof. Why did I do that? Why did I not just straight out accuse Shadow of being FD? Well to improve the credibility of my argument of course.


Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:24 am
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
zhuang281 wrote:
Addressing Erman: The fact that we were "given" stats by admins (Or so people suggest), didn't stop your team from attempting then succeeding to obtain our stats sheet and using it for your own gain did it? (I have quotes from a team member of yours admitting this) It also did not stop you from obtaining access to SP team forums by god knows what method to do god knows what. (Another team member of yours also admitted this.)

Proof is what makes the world go round and makes everyone happy. Proof is used in courts of law to indict someone. Lets go for a more recent example: I only accused ShadowBlade of being FD after aquiring proof. Why did I do that? Why did I not just straight out accuse Shadow of being FD? Well to improve the credibility of my argument of course.


You can deflect all you want. I don't really care. The banter on this forum just gets annoying after a while...

I don't actually care about this, I just think its funny that its actually been allowed to be discussed this much in public and that anyone is surprised this stuff goes on.

-ERMAN

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:42 am
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
If you are getting info given to you about how to do content etc by devs/admins, would you admit it if someone confronted you about it? No.

Oh the irony.

You want proof that Frac was one of the people that leveled from hermes? go back one page and I tell you that he was the same Level as me before that one week of Hermes leveling now stfu.

Its about time shit like this was actually posted on the forums, normally its an admin posting "please PM me ingame or forum PM me"

Jey: You are correct for pointing out that we do get some good fixes due to the admins playing the game, but I think history has shown that there is more downfall to this than benefit.

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:04 pm
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
erman wrote:
Couple things...

My exp tithe levels were all removed. So any argument about anyone keeping tithe levels is horseshit. Though I can easily see my being looked at very early in the process in determining who to revert based on my flag and past with some teams/admins. I personally don't care, but don't make it seem like the exp tithe levels are ok and were left on everyone's chars...they weren't.

Second. I can't believe they have left this up this long.

Third. Shit dude, this has gone on for as long as I've played this game. Its never going to change unless there is a dev team that does not play, which will never happen. Don't get bent out of shape over this kind of stuff. Just rest assured in the fact that you worked hard and played the game in stead of having it handed to you like some people who think their hot shit when they ace the test with the answer key next to them...

also, I think you are totally right in assuming that Jeff doesnt care. For the life of me, I can't figure out what he does with his day. He has said that this is his only job/source of income and that nothing else takes up his time. This blows me away with how long it takes for shit to get done and the long periods between improvements. And then when they happen, it sure as shit seems like Jey is doing it all.

I would love to know, just for curiosity sake, what jeff does all day. It would seem advantageous to him that SS be successful. and If my job was creating and cultivating a product that hasn't quite made it to the big time, I would bust my ass 12-16 hours a day to get it to where it should be. I could be way off, but it doesn't seem like thats whats happening.


SBP people, stop it, just stop it. all this banter about "you dont have proof" blah blah blah. You guys just look silly when you come on here and defend your team against accusations of being the admin team. I mean shit, the fact that Shaft actually got his powers taken away is kind of a big deal. That rarely happens.


I will genuinely be surprised if all this doesn't get deleted soon.


tl;dr this has been going on for the entire 7 years ive played, never going to stop. SBP stop asking for proof, makes you look desperate. I'm surprised this whole thing hasn't been deleted yet.

-ERMAN


i support ERMAN completly and frankly i am more pissed that there trying to now hide what we all know to be true.

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:49 pm
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
Tombustion wrote:
You want proof that Frac was one of the people that leveled from hermes? go back one page and I tell you that he was the same Level as me before that one week of Hermes leveling now stfu.


Are you perhaps dyslexic as well as retarded. I never asked for proof that Frac used Hermes to level and neither did anyone else. I asked for proof that Frac reverted levels of only a select few who were a direct challenge to himself and his goal of being the top leveled player. Infact, I stated this twice. Would you like me to tattoo it on your forehead to make it clearer?

zhuang281 wrote:
You are again suggesting Frac only removed those that were a direct challenge to him. You are making this connection without proof and this is the point I am disputing.


It seems that whenever any member of SP posts, you are there in your mindless rage without even thinking. How about you think next time so you don't get shown up for a fool for...the third time in this thread?

What proof I would ask of you is proof of Frac's levels not being removed. He has already had 250 levels taken off him. Other admins also back him when he said he has had his levels reverted. Where is your proof that he was level 2800 before leveling? Because from the screeny of the leaderboard you displayed, Frac was not in the top 10 at the time of screeny. He is still not in the top 10 at this moment in time. As such, that screeny does not support your claim that Frac has not had his levels removed, so don't bring it up.


Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:26 pm
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
zhuang281 wrote:

Are you perhaps dyslexic as well as retarded. I never asked for proof that Frac used Hermes to level and neither did anyone else. I asked for proof that Frac reverted levels of only a select few who were a direct challenge to himself and his goal of being the top leveled player. Infact, I stated this twice. Would you like me to tattoo it on your forehead to make it clearer?


zhuang281 wrote:
You are again suggesting Frac only removed those that were a direct challenge to him. You are making this connection without proof and this is the point I am disputing.

It seems that whenever any member of SP posts, you are there in your mindless rage without even thinking. How about you think next time so you don't get shown up for a fool for...the third time in this thread?

What proof I would ask of you is proof of Frac's levels not being removed. He has already had 250 levels taken off him. Other admins also back him when he said he has had his levels reverted. Where is your proof that he was level 2800 before leveling? Because from the screeny of the leaderboard you displayed, Frac was not in the top 10 at the time of screeny. He is still not in the top 10 at this moment in time. As such, that screeny does not support your claim that Frac has not had his levels removed, so don't bring it up.


First off skinny boy, don't ever call me retarded/dyslexic, you do not want to get into an insult war with me.

Where did I say Frac was in the top 10? Open your eyes you pompous stuck up spasticated wanker. I am telling you, that he was around the same level as me before the Hermes leveling. After the Hermes leveling he was level 3100 - 3200, but while all of us lost our levels, he didn't. Want to know how? Because he was still sitting in the exact same place as he is now. You don't level from 2800 to 3200 from leeching exp from the team that quickly, it takes at least 1 and a half months for that to happen. I don't need to prove that he was level 2800 because you know damn well he was, many others know also, and I remember having an alt docked at an AI base, refreshing the top player list every 25 minutes to see if I had overtaken Captain Pants (Murasame), and FracOMac's name was also shooting up like a rocket. As for other admins backing him up, saying that he got rid of his levels, you clearly have never heard of a Lie before, which is rather shocking as you used to do that 24/7.

From the looks of things you want me to take screenshots of everything that ever happens in this game, well let me tell you something, Star Sonata might refer to me as Draco Malfoy, but that does not mean I carry a Magic Wand and a Time Turner, where I can just turn back time and screenshot what you call "proof". People have said the same as me, I would have thought that would be enough for an aging mutant stick-insect like you. Can I just add that constantly asking for proof does not back up your case one bit.


Bageese from the Ticket: Per your report of Shaft releasing stats, I did a bit more digging on my own and got a secondary party to confirm your story. As such, all developer access for Shaft has been removed. I actually took care of it the day you submitted your second response, but I failed to respond in time. My sincerest apologies.

More evidence of abusing powers! Yay.

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:59 pm
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
Wow, this is ridiculous. Yes, I gained xp tithe from the hermes bug but my level was reverted just like everyone else. This even caused me to drop a couple places on the leaderboard (back to where I was before the bug, but still). If I was in favor of level reversion because I wanted to be a high on the leaderboard, wouldn't I have wanted to keep those levels? Your accusation here makes no sense. I think the real story with regards to this point (which you seem to spend a disproportionate time on) is that you're upset that your own exploited levels here were taken away. (this goes for both Thermal and Combustion here, who were two of the biggest abusers of the bug incase anyone didn't know)

For anyone interested in hearing both sides of a story, here is my condensed account of the first kill of Kidd: Uni reset rolls around and Kidd goes live, this being the first endgame boss I've designed I was very excited to see players in action against him since I'm fully expecting him to tear them to pieces. Surprisingly (to me at the time) a run was organized very quickly after the reset to see what he was about, but I was invited (at the time, most of my own team didn't even know I was a dev) so I decided to tag along for elec, since I'm an engineer and sitting there with an elec beam seems to me like a harmless way to participate. So the run commences and within 30 seconds Kidd manages to tear apart the best squad I'd seen at that point (other than a couple absentis snipers, it was all t21 ships), and I get the huge self satisfaction from his scripting tearing apart the very squad I designed him to slaughter. However, the squad regroups outside and upon the 2nd try manages to use some quirks in his behavior to avoid most of his nastiness, ending in a successful kill. At this point if any of you remember, his loot tables were bugged and he didn't drop any of his unique items. Having seen it first hand the quirks that were used to kill him, I go about fixing them for the next patch and fixing the loot tables. I went on a few more runs after that once the patch fixing him went live using other people's characters, but none were successful for a while. To this day, I've done very few kidd runs and the ones I have done I've intentionally avoided discussing or having any hand in strategy as I feel it'd be unfair as the person who designed him.

However, I realize that might not be enough for the playerbase as a whole to be satisfied. So for any future content I help create (not really my role on the dev team anymore anyway) I will not set foot in the place as a player until a team other than whatever team I reside on at the time has conquered it.

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 pm
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
FracOMac wrote:
my level was reverted just like everyone else.


Right...


Last edited by Bacchus on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:58 pm
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
so why are u still level 3215??

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:59 pm
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Post Re: An interesting topic.
Bacchus wrote:
FracOMac wrote:
my level was reverted just like everyone else.


Right...

Predator1356 wrote:
so why are u still level 3215??


Because combustion's info is simply wrong? I was 3367 before I had nearly 250 levels taken away, and I've gained some levels from tithe in the month since then. If its really so hard to believe I can have Jey or Jeff verify from the logs that the levels were removed.

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